The Great Labor Force Debate

#327
#327
Rickyvol77 said:
He did last year when he discussed the difference in pay increases between levels of team members. Again it’s not that big a deal
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First off, I don't believe you. Second, you're not hanging out with the people you label as unskilled and have, as yet, explained how you can identify them.
 
#328
#328
ClearwaterVol said:
First off, I don't believe you. Second, you're not hanging out with the people you label as unskilled and have, as yet, explained how you can identify them.
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I’m confused to what you mean. I work alongside unskilled and skilled workers and see the both daily. I’m over three departments, two with skilled workers and one with unskilled
 
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#331
#331
DonjoVol said:
Did you see in that link you posted that the certification process is 4 to 12 weeks? Therefore you can't just train someone in a day. You actually have to be certified and renew your license every 24 months. Surely you're not going to contribute with these guys and insult the CNA profession like that.
Mr VP Ricky liked that post. If he was a real VP in Healthcare he wouldn't be liking posts made by people insulting that profession. He didn't bother to correct them either. He should have corrected the poster.
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Good Lord. You're such an imbecile continually trying to spin an acknowledgement of fact as some "insult" to a profession or individual people. Not all labor is skilled labor. That's not a debate. It's simple fact.
 
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#333
#333
Rickyvol77 said:
I’m confused to what you mean. I work alongside unskilled and skilled workers and see the both daily. I’m over three departments, two with skilled workers and one with unskilled
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I said hanging out. Actually knowing what they are saying and thinking as opposed to believing you know.
 
#334
#334
hog88 said:
I didn’t say they weren’t. This is a stupid debate.
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It is a stupid debate because there is no actual debate. There is reality - some labor is classified as skilled, and some labor is classified as unskilled. Then there is the fantasy land that exists inside DonjoVol's mind so that he can feel good about the fact that nobody feels insulted. Nevermind the fact that the distinction between skilled versus unskilled labor isn't insulting.
 
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#335
#335
DonjoVol said:
It is. I would say it's pretty hard standing outside in freezing or 95 degree weather. Especially for long periods of time wearing those ridiculous suits.
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A homeless person dealing drugs out of a tent on the sidewalks of San Francisco is skilled labor to you, DonjoVol. We get it. You're wrong.
 
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#336
#336
ClearwaterVol said:
It feels like we are getting away from the skilled vs. unskilled discussion and talking about job competency. Are truck drivers considered skilled labor?

You also seemed to be equating demand vs. labor pool as a determinative factor in the skilled vs. unskilled determination from which it would follow that skilled vs. unskilled could change depending on market forces. For example, a severe and long lasting shortage of janitors could create a situation in which janitors would be considered skilled labor by your definitions.
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On the one hand, it may not be correct to use the term "skilled". But on the other hand, if the conversation was changed to the use of another term that might be more appropriate like maybe you suggested (competency) or something similar, some of these same folks will argue you down with that new term, as well. That is because @DonjoVol unknowingly opened up a can of worms that involved employee labor costs and employee control.
 
#338
#338
Rickyvol77 said:
So you are saying If a gang member moves next door to me, i should kick in his door and shoot his wife and kids. That’s your analogy?
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Not necessarily even that far. I'm simply asking if you would feel comfortable. And when I say "compelled to act", it doesn't mean you go kick their door down necessarily. It could mean that you closely monitor their activities with a heightened sense of awareness.
 
#339
#339
Rickyvol77 said:
So you are saying If a gang member moves next door to me, i should kick in his door and shoot his wife and kids. That’s your analogy?
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And as an example of what I was talking about earlier... the way you opened with your response... you take a comment and then drag it to a ridiculous extreme.
 
#340
#340
Rickyvol77 said:
more wealth envy
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Possibly.

Or it shows an unbalance in wages. I know... I know... that may trigger you into thinking that I'm a Bolshevik. But I'm just pointing out that all things considered, that seems to be an example of a market failure or imbalance.
 
#341
#341
NCFisher said:
Do you think really CEO types and corporations were the ones who took it in the shorts the last two years, or small business that employs nearly half of the country? Is it CEOs kids attending public school whose academic growth and socialization was halted at pre-pandemic level? Or tightening their belt or experiencing genuine hardship over runaway inflation? Being bankrupted and evicted?

It's a corporatist system. Workers didn't push back; leftist government winked at industry who absorbed the costs that small business can't or that makes their existence tenuous. The Fed - Reserve and government - have an egregious history of causing catastrophe while 'managing the economy', I marvel why anyone thinks them capable of it.
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I don't think he's necessarily blaming the CEOs. The system as a whole is to blame.
 
#342
#342
Rasputin_Vol said:
I don't think he's necessarily blaming the CEOs. The system as a whole is to blame.
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My focus was the assumption that the Covid reaction was a positive in the vacuum of labor shortage - generated by government policy and temporary unless we go all-in fascist - while ignoring the overwhelming deleterious effects. Most affected were ordinary folk, not the CEOs and the like.

Would the Russian model be a better system?
 
#343
#343
NCFisher said:
My focus was the assumption that the Covid reaction was a positive in the vacuum of labor shortage - generated by government policy and temporary unless we go all-in fascist - while ignoring the overwhelming deleterious effects. Most affected were ordinary folk, not the CEOs and the like.

Would the Russian model be a better system?
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Well let's all agree that the govt shutting down the economy was a disaster. I think what he was saying was that there was a silver lining that came out of that. I don't think he was advocating a takeover of our economy such as that to guarantee higher labor rates.

I really think you guys are getting far too emotional about him simply saying that a lot of these people are underpaid. It rubs some of you all the wrong way.
 
#345
#345
Rasputin_Vol said:
Well let's all agree that the govt shutting down the economy was a disaster. I think what he was saying was that there was a silver lining that came out of that. I don't think he was advocating a takeover of our economy such as that to guarantee higher labor rates.

I really think you guys are getting far too emotional about him simply saying that a lot of these people are underpaid. It rubs some of you all the wrong way.
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Critical disagreement is not emotion.

On balance, I see nothing good came of it since we can't isolate the part we like whether he advocates it or not.
 
#347
#347
Rickyvol77 said:
Again the CEO directly uses the terms skilled and unskilled labor in meetings and emails because he like most intelligent people understand that this is a business term not an insult. It’s a shame that some can’t grasp simple concepts which is a good indicator of why they’ve never been in charge or lead anything of note
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I'm calling BS on that one as well. No way an actual CEO would speak like that in an actual business setting.

I guess you probably agreed with Tom McClintock when he said firefighters were unskilled. Right?
 
#348
#348
Vol423 said:
A homeless person dealing drugs out of a tent on the sidewalks of San Francisco is skilled labor to you, DonjoVol. We get it. You're wrong.
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I never said illegal work was okay. Show me where I said that.

The homeless problem in San Francisco and other places are largely a result of democrat party policies which is an entirely different topic of discussion.

You and Ricky are just like these leftists who when you can't win an argument start taking it to the extreme.
 
#349
#349
Rasputin_Vol said:
Possibly.

Or it shows an unbalance in wages. I know... I know... that may trigger you into thinking that I'm a Bolshevik. But I'm just pointing out that all things considered, that seems to be an example of a market failure or imbalance.
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In communist countries there was a large wealth gap between the upper class and everyone else. Many of these people are too ignorant to know that of course. At this point I don't expect them to know much at all. Advocating for higher wages for working class and middle class people isn't communism or socialism. But that does seem to be there go to insult sometimes.
 
#350
#350
Vol423 said:
Good Lord. You're such an imbecile continually trying to spin an acknowledgement of fact as some "insult" to a profession or individual people. Not all labor is skilled labor. That's not a debate. It's simple fact.
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All labor is skilled labor. I can't help that you are ignorant and set in your ways. People are free to think how they want. Sounds like you would make a good communist since you don't like debate.
 
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