The Great Labor Force Debate

[Rickyvol77]

I see what happened here. Self proclaimed VP Ricky was losing his little "private company" debate so he moved on to this topic which hadn't been brought up in months. He managed to mobilize some of the other hyenas like himself in the process.

Hard to lose the debate when actual facts and law are being quoted by me and everyone else here and you are emotionally whining

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I see what happened here. Self proclaimed VP Ricky was losing his little "private company" debate so he moved on to this topic which hadn't been brought up in months. He managed to mobilize some of the other hyenas like himself in the process.

In the last debate, they focused on the word "valuable". Now in this debate, they focus on the word "skilled".

They get so caught up in semantics and that they can't seem to step away and look at the larger point you have been making. In the process, they reveal a lot about themselves and their condescending attitudes towards people.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Hard to lose the debate when actual facts and law are being quoted by me and everyone else here and you are emotionally whining

Oh... and here goes Ricky with his "the law" nonsense.

Nobody gives a damn about most of these corrupt azz laws. They are the main problem in this country.

 

[hog88]

I’d sure take some labor right now, skilled or unskilled.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Oh... and here goes Ricky with his "the law" nonsense.

Nobody gives a damn about most of these corrupt azz laws. They are the main problem in this country.

So you believe that businesses should not be allowed to make rules that dictate what their employees do, dress, act etc?
also yes or no there are skilled labor jobs and unskilled labor jobs?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So you believe that businesses should not be allowed to make rules that dictate what their employees do, dress, act etc?
also yes or no there are skilled labor jobs and unskilled labor jobs?

I have no issue with businesses having the right to have uniform or dress codes. Employees can put on and take off uniforms or change hair styles relatively easily.

The issue is an employer mandating an experimental vaccine that cannot be undone once it is injected. Now you are going several steps beyond just a uniform and affecting that person's body.

This really should not be that hard to understand.

 

[SamRebel35]

Our need to categorize one another is endless.

For better or worse, you're absolutely correct. It is a NEED and a biological REQUIREMENT to endlessly categorize one another. As long as dominance hierarchies exist (hint: they will always exist until the universe implodes), there will be the basic need for humans to categorize one another.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I have no issue with businesses having the right to have uniform or dress codes. Employees can put on and take off uniforms or change hair styles relatively easily.

The issue is an employer mandating an experimental vaccine that cannot be undone once it is injected. Now you are going several steps beyond just a uniform and affecting that person's body.

This really should not be that hard to understand.

You also don’t have to work for said employer if you disagree with their policy no matter how stupid or smart it is. Which is the point.
also please answer the skilled vs unskilled labor question

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So you believe that businesses should not be allowed to make rules that dictate what their employees do, dress, act etc?
also yes or no there are skilled labor jobs and unskilled labor jobs?

Also, yes... there are skilled and unskilled labor jobs. I think we all have an understanding of what skilled and unskilled are. I think we commonly consider people in the medical profession, the trades and STEM to be "skilled" in the traditional sense.

I think the point that donjo is pointing out is an attribute that maybe shouldn't be called a "skill" sense that triggers a lot of people. It is a human trait revolving around ability to learn quickly, work ethic, showing up for work... whatever that trait is called, it is in high demand and in low supply... therefore, there should be more "value" placed on it. And I know that word "value" will also trigger people because they immediately assume that the argument is being made that the janitor should make as much as the CEO. Just saying that a lot of these workers are underappreciated and are underpaid.

I suppose the next thing people will swarm on now will be me saying "underpaid", which I think is one of the two issues that has been revealed in these two discussions.

Some of you people want to maintain control over these employees (meaning allowing businesses to do whatever they want with employees including an experimental jab mandate) and keep them underpaid (which is why so many got butthurt about the word "valuable").

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You also don’t have to work for said employer if you disagree with their policy no matter how stupid or smart it is. Which is the point.
also please answer the skilled vs unskilled labor question

If it was only one employer on town making that decision, you might (might) have a point. But what you ignore is that we had the Federal govt either incentivizing or coercing companies to put in these mandates. Now that employee has fewer options or no options if they want to continue their profession without going through with the jab.

 

[utvolpj]

In the last debate, they focused on the word "valuable". Now in this debate, they focus on the word "skilled".

They get so caught up in semantics and that they can't seem to step away and look at the larger point you have been making. In the process, they reveal a lot about themselves and their condescending attitudes towards people.

A position can have value while the actual person employed does not based on the skill/knowledge/experience required. More easily replaced = less value/skill.

 

[DonjoVol]

Hard to lose the debate when actual facts and law are being quoted by me and everyone else here and you are emotionally whining

You did lose the debate Mr. VP. And on top of that you lost it to someone who you think is beneath you. Now get to work.

 

[Vol737]

How about driving a forklift? Skill or nah?

I’d say driving anything you could potentially kill yourself or others on, that doesn’t drive just like the simplest of cars or golf carts and has multiple controls to operate, is a skill.

 

[DonjoVol]

A position can have value while the actual person employed does not based on the skill/knowledge/experience required. More easily replaced = less value/skill.

They are not as easily replaced as you think. That seems to be the issue you and others in this forum have. Some of you are often very clueless.

 

[DonjoVol]

I’d say driving anything you could potentially kill yourself or others on, that doesn’t drive just like the simplest of cars or golf carts and has multiple controls to operate, is a skill.

I'd say delivering anything in Knoxville traffic regardless of what you are driving takes skill.

 

[DonjoVol]

Hard to lose the debate when actual facts and law are being quoted by me and everyone else here and you are emotionally whining

Yeah right. You backtracked so many times you started embarrassing yourself. Like our football team embarrassed themselves when they decided not to play Army and their complex and innovative offense.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Also, yes... there are skilled and unskilled labor jobs. I think we all have an understanding of what skilled and unskilled are. I think we commonly consider people in the medical profession, the trades and STEM to be "skilled" in the traditional sense.

I think the point that donjo is pointing out is an attribute that maybe shouldn't be called a "skill" sense that triggers a lot of people. It is a human trait revolving around ability to learn quickly, work ethic, showing up for work... whatever that trait is called, it is in high demand and in low supply... therefore, there should be more "value" placed on it. And I know that word "value" will also trigger people because they immediately assume that the argument is being made that the janitor should make as much as the CEO. Just saying that a lot of these workers are underappreciated and are underpaid.

I suppose the next thing people will swarm on now will be me saying "underpaid", which I think is one of the two issues that has been revealed in these two discussions.

Some of you people want to maintain control over these employees (meaning allowing businesses to do whatever they want with employees including an experimental jab mandate) and keep them underpaid (which is why so many got butthurt about the word "valuable").

Underpaid is relative to the market. No one is paying a janitor $50/hr even if they are the best most hard working janitor in the county. Doesn’t mean they aren’t important but they are unskilled labor and not worth that kind of cost. And businesses can make whatever policy they see fit even if you disagree with them, you have no right to a job there. You are free to go elsewhere if you choose

 

[GroverCleveland]

How about driving a forklift? Skill or nah?

I can speak to this: to be a good one, yes. Was once a partner in a cotton warehouse in south Georgia. The difference between a skilled operator and just a driver is significant.

 

[Rickyvol77]

You did lose the debate Mr. VP. And on top of that you lost it to someone who you think is beneath you. Now get to work.

You are the only person arguing your incorrect point out of 20-25 posters (both liberal and conservative). You are being called out and you can’t even answer the simple questions asked of you because it makes your point look even dumber

 

[utvolpj]

They are not as easily replaced as you think. That seems to be the issue you and others in this forum have. Some of you are often very clueless.

Not true at all. Unskilled labor is historically easy to replace. The position is more valuable than the employee. The current labor market is an anomaly

 

[Rickyvol77]

Yeah right. You backtracked so many times you started embarrassing yourself. Like our football team embarrassed themselves when they decided not to play Army and their complex and innovative offense.

Lmao army isn’t innovative. They run an antiquated offense from the 1920s. Try to stay on topic

 

[DonjoVol]

Do you ever wonder why literally every other poster here is correcting you and making fun of you and you can’t even man up and discuss the actual dictionary definitions of why you are wrong?

So people aren't allowed to think for themselves? This is where you and others often embarrass yourselves by being stuck in your ways. You can't win arguments or debates so you want to resort to dictionary definitions.

Dictionary definitions will probably tell you Hitler's national socialism is right wing. It's clearly a left wing ideology.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Do you ever wonder why literally every other poster here is correcting you and making fun of you and you can’t even man up and discuss the actual dictionary definitions of why you are wrong?

Is being a cop a skilled position or no? I don't think there is a whole lot more skill needed than the sign spinning guy.

 

[Rickyvol77]

So people aren't allowed to think for themselves? This is where you and others often embarrass yourselves by being stuck in your ways. You can't win arguments or debates so you want to resort to dictionary definitions.

Dictionary definitions will probably tell you Hitler's national socialism is right wing. It's clearly a left wing ideology.

Jesus you went to a public school didn’t you? Let me guess, in a smaller rural county?

So again let me ask you very slowly and see if you can answer. Are there jobs that are unskilled labor? In YOUR own words, what do you think the term unskilled labor means?

 

[DonjoVol]

Not true at all. Unskilled labor is historically easy to replace. The position is more valuable than the employee. The current labor market is an anomaly

This pandemic also showed how valuable these positions were. Now companies are having to raise their starting pay to fill them. Which is something that honestly should have been done at least 5 years ago.