The Green New Deal

#526
#526
aurabass said:
This Democrat has a great interest in advances in nuclear power. TERRA POWER backed by Bill Gates was on track to have it's first plant in China to stop the proliferation of planet-killing coal burning installations. The Terra Power wave reactors burn spent fuel rods that are perhaps the greatest drawback to the nuclear power we've used for decades.
The main support for the hysterical anti-nuke movement came from fossil fuel companies - hmmm seems like every sustainable energy alternative is the victim of the Merchants of Doubt headed by Koch's Heartland Institute. Those kings of misinformation have put our grandchildren in mortal danger so something like Terra Power would be a serious contender to reduce carbon emissions.
But thanks to the TRUMPUBLICANS the effort in China has been stopped. = I guess the "Chinese Hoax" will not be remedied while the Tweeter in Chief is in power.
Yeah cheaper nuclear power that helps eliminate the current radioactive waste would put a serious dent in Trumps favorite coal and oil barons income so we cannot have that even if it might save the planet for our children's children.
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how did Trump stop something going on in China? especially while in a trade war and playing chicken with their war ships?
 
#527
#527
UT_VOLS13 said:
Who's Behind the Green New Deal? Big Money Backs Ocasio-Cortez Socialist Dream Project | Breitbart
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This crap is always about power and money. It all happens when someone wants a bigger role and it's too time consuming and expensive to take over by competing and being better ... probably because they can't do that. So the deal is start a revolution (political, economic,or technological ... or a mix) and label the status quo as bad and the "new deal" as all good. No competition - you just sell it to the willing mental midgets and with their help sweep the old order out. Of course, you wind up with N Korea, or the USSR, or any number of other sh!tholes, but that quest for power got a few just what they want ... money and power.

The "New Green Deal" is completely brown, disproved, and rotten through and through, but with the promise of pure gold for a very very few.
 
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#528
#528
aurabass said:
This Democrat has a great interest in advances in nuclear power. TERRA POWER backed by Bill Gates was on track to have it's first plant in China to stop the proliferation of planet-killing coal burning installations. The Terra Power wave reactors burn spent fuel rods that are perhaps the greatest drawback to the nuclear power we've used for decades.
The main support for the hysterical anti-nuke movement came from fossil fuel companies - hmmm seems like every sustainable energy alternative is the victim of the Merchants of Doubt headed by Koch's Heartland Institute. Those kings of misinformation have put our grandchildren in mortal danger so something like Terra Power would be a serious contender to reduce carbon emissions.
But thanks to the TRUMPUBLICANS the effort in China has been stopped. = I guess the "Chinese Hoax" will not be remedied while the Tweeter in Chief is in power.
Yeah cheaper nuclear power that helps eliminate the current radioactive waste would put a serious dent in Trumps favorite coal and oil barons income so we cannot have that even if it might save the planet for our children's children.
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Interesting. So, here we are with apparent solutions for the some of the downsides to conventional nuclear power, while oil and coal interests plot to stifle innovation and environmental impact reduction.

Yep nuclear is doomed. Drill baby!
 
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#529
#529
37L1 said:
Things like 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima have been the main support for the anti-nuke movement. *Nod to McDad
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No doubt - but ever since Mr. Anderson of Atlantic Richfield Oil funded "Friends of the Earth" with a public $200,000, the fossil fuel barons wised up and provided cash to environmental groups by proxy. As a result the last 2 nuclear plants in the US including Watts Bar were started in the 1970's.
Obama proposed the first new plants since that time
And of course, Trump stopped the Terra Power plant in China while promoting a nuclear plant for Saudi Arabia.
 
#531
#531
aurabass said:
Just read the link under TERRA POWER above
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yeah but it will be allowed here? not even sure why they needed to start in China, or why if they did its needs US approval?

haven't seen it from you, but one of the critiques on Trump is "letting" other nations getting away with stuff. including nuclear policy. here is a case where he cracked down.
 
#532
#532
Stew Cook said:
Interesting. So, here we are with apparent solutions for the some of the downsides to conventional nuclear power, while oil and coal interests plot to stifle innovation and environmental impact reduction.

Yep nuclear is doomed. Drill baby!
Click to expand...

You do understand that even if we went gasoline/diesel free in our vehicles, we'd still be drilling for oil?

I just wanna say one word to you, just one word...are you listening...plastics.
 
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#533
#533
LouderVol said:
yeah but it will be allowed here? not even sure why they needed to start in China, or why if they did its needs US approval?
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The hoops and barriers in the path of launching a new nuclear power initiative in the USA are prohibitive. I am not privy to the Terra Power reasoning but it seems they believed a welcoming government in China - where such decisions are not subject to public approval - would be the place to prove the reliability of their design. Once proven approval in the US from regulators and the public might be easier. The fact the wave reactor burns spent fuel could be positive for the environmentalists. Still, they would need a place where local opposition could be overcome.
When Terra Power started in China in 2015 they had no idea they would have to deal with the "Chinese Hoax" twitter guy. Gates and his company know the need for sustainable alternatives to fossil fuels is global so it doesn't matter where coal burning plants are replaced by his product.
Terra Power is only one of several new smaller safer nuclear power plant designs that are under development.
 
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#535
#535
Grand Vol said:
You do understand that even if we went gasoline/diesel free in our vehicles, we'd still be drilling for oil?

I just wanna say one word to you, just one word...are you listening...plastics.
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Of course I do, yet the reduction of consumption for power production seems like a win. I'm assuming the case could be made that more supply would equal more consumption elsewhere, but that doesn't present a good argument to fight this innovation.

Don't get me started on hydrogen again...
 
#536
#536
Stew Cook said:
Of course I do, yet the reduction of consumption for power production seems like a win. I'm assuming the case could be made that more supply would equal more consumption elsewhere, but that doesn't present a good argument to fight this innovation.

Don't get me started on hydrogen again...
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Oh go ahead, why not, nobody reads your posts all the way through anyway.
 
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#537
#537
Stew Cook said:
Of course I do, yet the reduction of consumption for power production seems like a win. I'm assuming the case could be made that more supply would equal more consumption elsewhere, but that doesn't present a good argument to fight this innovation.

Don't get me started on hydrogen again...
Click to expand...

Your posts sound more like you've been huffing helium.
 
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#541
#541
aurabass said:
No doubt - but ever since Mr. Anderson of Atlantic Richfield Oil funded "Friends of the Earth" with a public $200,000, the fossil fuel barons wised up and provided cash to environmental groups by proxy. As a result the last 2 nuclear plants in the US including Watts Bar were started in the 1970's.
Obama proposed the first new plants since that time
And of course, Trump stopped the Terra Power plant in China while promoting a nuclear plant for Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...

You're talking a sodium cooled fast reactor similar to the abandoned Clinch River project. A fast reactor simply uses U238 with fast neutrons rather than U235 with thermal neutrons. The reason it can "burn" spent fuel is that our fuel is only slightly enriched - meaning most of the stuff in the fuel bundles is U238 rather than U235. Do you happen to know what happens if a molten salt like sodium comes into contact with water? Steam is what turns the turbines meaning you have water on one side of a heat exchanger and a molten salt on the other. Few if any heat exchangers go for extended times without leaking because fluid flow sets up flow induced vibration and eventually tubes wear at supports ... assuming things like erosion and intergranular stress corrosion don't get them first. On one hand the reactor would presumably at least not be on our soil, and the Chinese have already turned lots of China into an environmental disaster anyway.

A fast reactor can also be a breeder reactor ... it can convert non fissile material to fissile material - even weapon grade fissile material. Maybe you trust the Chinese more than I do.

Terra Power is in Bellevue, WA which pretty certainly means it's somehow a spin off of people from Siemens Nuclear Power after Siemens left the nuclear business. After working for Siemens Nuclear, I wouldn't trust anyone associated with that particular branch of Siemens with a flashlight. To get into the US market Siemens cobbled together a bunch of small specialty nuclear companies, and there was a constant struggle for control ... a pretty unstable environment with little reasonable oversight and control by knowledgeable people. And by the way, German companies have a bad habit of selling arms and banned technology to just about anybody with enough money.
 
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#542
#542
AM64 said:
A fast reactor can also be a breeder reactor ... it can convert non fissile material to fissile material - even weapon grade fissile material. Maybe you trust the Chinese more than I do.
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By far the greatest carbon footprint on earth comes from China. China has been proliferating coal-fired energy plants by the dozens but at least the Chinese leadership is now acknowledging the end result of all that carbon.
That is why China wanted to try the TERRA POWER alternative and if successful to expand the use of that alternative. THAT IS A VERY GOOD THING.
China already has nuclear weapons and a means to deliver those warheads to US cities. That means any more enriched plutonium gained from alternative nuclear power generation is more or less superfluous. No need to trust the Chinese on that since its' all past.
At least the Chinese are not as blind to the situation as the TWEETER IN CHIEF whose "Chinese Hoax" only proves his frightening lack of mental capacity. Of course, that lack has been clearly evident to anyone who hasn't been brain-fried by the Faux Koch Heartland deniers and their criminal misinformation campaign.
Any new nuclear power option will carry a degree of risk, but at this point, our current course is leading to CERTAIN disaster.

Perhaps Bill Gates is a fool but I don't think so. In a world where the newer nuclear proposals were simply an additional power source it would be easy to refuse to take any risk. That is not the reality we currently face.
Either it's already too late to avoid the inevitable results or our blind failure to recognize how digging, fracking or drilling millions of years of stored carbon from beneath the Earth and spewing the artifacts of burning it into our atmosphere OR we have to try every available solution to reduce those emissions. I am not ready to give up for the sake of my grandson so if you have better alternatives let's here them.
 
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#543
#543
aurabass said:
By far the greatest carbon footprint on earth comes from China. China has been proliferating coal-fired energy plants by the dozens but at least the Chinese leadership is now acknowledging the end result of all that carbon.
That is why China wanted to try the TERRA POWER alternative and if successful to expand the use of that alternative. THAT IS A VERY GOOD THING.
China already has nuclear weapons and a means to deliver those warheads to US cities. That means any more enriched plutonium gained from alternative nuclear power generation is more or less superfluous. No need to trust the Chinese on that since its' all past.
At least the Chinese are not as blind to the situation as the TWEETER IN CHIEF whose "Chinese Hoax" only proves his frightening lack of mental capacity. Of course, that lack has been clearly evident to anyone who hasn't been brain-fried by the Faux Koch Heartland deniers and their criminal misinformation campaign.
Any new nuclear power option will carry a degree of risk, but at this point, our current course is leading to CERTAIN disaster.

Perhaps Bill Gates is a fool but I don't think so. In a world where the newer nuclear proposals were simply an additional power source it would be easy to refuse to take any risk. That is not the reality we currently face.
Either it's already too late to avoid the inevitable results or our blind failure to recognize how digging, fracking or drilling millions of years of stored carbon from beneath the Earth and spewing the artifacts of burning it into our atmosphere OR we have to try every available solution to reduce those emissions. I am not ready to give up for the sake of my grandson so if you have better alternatives let's here them.
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if they are aware of the issue why are they not dealing with it until 2040? 20 years after everyone else.

even if they are doing more green, they are still growing their non-green energy production faster than their green energy production. Put another way, they are still getting worse.
 
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#544
#544
LouderVol said:
if they are aware of the issue why are they not dealing with it until 2040? 20 years after everyone else. even if they are doing more green, they are still growing their non-green energy production faster than their green energy production. Put another way, they are still getting worse.
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I have no dog in the 'applaud China' hunt as you seem to presume and I cannot apologize for them.
China has the worst carbon footprint of all nations. China still has a massive population living in severe poverty after a couple of decades of incredible economic growth. Much of the pollution created in China comes from manufacturing products for US consumption. So China is balancing economic growth and environmental concerns while bringing a massive population out a veritable stone age.
Don't you think its hypocritical for any of us to chide China for their continuing contribution to global warming?
What we have done since the TWEETER took over is climate criminal - withdrawal from the Paris agreement - rolling back any restrictions he could put in place by Obama - selecting coal and oil lobbyists and luminaries to head Interior and the EPA etc.
Yes they are getting worse but so are we.
 
#545
#545
aurabass said:
I have no dog in the 'applaud China' hunt as you seem to presume and I cannot apologize for them.
China has the worst carbon footprint of all nations. China still has a massive population living in severe poverty after a couple of decades of incredible economic growth. Much of the pollution created in China comes from manufacturing products for US consumption. So China is balancing economic growth and environmental concerns while bringing a massive population out a veritable stone age.
Don't you think its hypocritical for any of us to chide China for their continuing contribution to global warming?
What we have done since the TWEETER took over is climate criminal - withdrawal from the Paris agreement - rolling back any restrictions he could put in place by Obama - selecting coal and oil lobbyists and luminaries to head Interior and the EPA etc.
Yes they are getting worse but so are we.
Click to expand...

Apparently you choose to ignore facts.
 
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#546
#546
aurabass said:
I have no dog in the 'applaud China' hunt as you seem to presume and I cannot apologize for them.
China has the worst carbon footprint of all nations. China still has a massive population living in severe poverty after a couple of decades of incredible economic growth. Much of the pollution created in China comes from manufacturing products for US consumption. So China is balancing economic growth and environmental concerns while bringing a massive population out a veritable stone age.
Don't you think its hypocritical for any of us to chide China for their continuing contribution to global warming?
What we have done since the TWEETER took over is climate criminal - withdrawal from the Paris agreement - rolling back any restrictions he could put in place by Obama - selecting coal and oil lobbyists and luminaries to head Interior and the EPA etc.
Yes they are getting worse but so are we.
Click to expand...
Report Finds All European Union Countries Failing Paris Climate Targets
Only 16 countries meet their commitment to Paris Agreement, new study finds
Data Shows Decrease in U.S. Greenhouse Gas Emissions During Trump’s First Year in Office | US EPA

so while most of Europe, and the world, is still increasing, anti green Trump still had the US decreasing in carbon. It was at a lesser rate than Obama. 1% vs 1.64%. but considering we aren't a part of the Paris Accords I would call that winning in a world full of hypocrites.

so no, I don't think its hypocritical for us at all. I agree its hypocritical of anyone making the green argument to buy from China, but since we aren't them, no.
 
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#547
#547
LouderVol said:
Report Finds All European Union Countries Failing Paris Climate Targets
Only 16 countries meet their commitment to Paris Agreement, new study finds
Data Shows Decrease in U.S. Greenhouse Gas Emissions During Trump’s First Year in Office | US EPA so while most of Europe, and the world, is still increasing, anti green Trump still had the US decreasing in carbon. It was at a lesser rate than Obama. 1% vs 1.64%. but considering we aren't a part of the Paris Accords I would call that winning in a world full of hypocrites.
so no, I don't think its hypocritical for us at all. I agree its hypocritical of anyone making the green argument to buy from China, but since we aren't them, no.
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The facts are: FACT CHECK Trump's policies cause a decrease in emissions - per TRUMP'S EPA
 
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#549
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