The Impeachment Thread

#39,054
#39,054
AM64 said:
Who was the DNI that day? The entire intelligence apparatus also claimed the Russians couldn't hack the election during the Obama reign ... and then dims had a different view later. It's always been so interesting what our intelligence people find out in retrospect ... like when the USSR collapsed. Seems like their motto should be something like "WOW, I didn't see that one coming."
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That is not true. You are taking one statement that Obama made, and trying to attribute it to the IC. That is wrong.
 
#39,055
#39,055
hog88 said:
Obama fired Generals who disagreed with his assessment of various situations and I cannot recall ever calling him unpatriotic. Wrong, stupid and corrupt maybe but not unpatriotic.
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That he might have been wrong can certainly be debated. Trump is the most corrupt President of modern times and it's nowhere close. Can't be debated
 
#39,057
#39,057
hog88 said:
That does not make him or anyone else unpatriotic. Loyalty to and belief in the government is not patriotism.
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Patriotism is literally devotion and support of one's country. Try as you might, you can't separate the government and its policies from the "country" - especially when the country's governments policies are being dismissed in favor of the support perennial enemy.
 
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#39,058
#39,058
hog88 said:
Government agencies are not our country.
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They are one part of the country. As President, Trump had no business siding with Vladimir Putin and against the conclusions of our intelligence community. Trump received no backing on this from fellow Republicans and that is why he quickly backtracked when he got back to DC. If Trump did nothing wrong, then why did he change his story later? Remember? Trump later tried to claim that he had misspoken. It was a ridiculous claim... but he tried to make it.
 
#39,060
#39,060
Septic said:
Patriotism is literally devotion and support of one's country. Try as you might, you can't separate the government and its policies from the "country" - especially when the country's governments policies are being dismissed in favor of the support perennial enemy.
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Hog has subjective patriotism.
 
#39,061
#39,061
hog88 said:
Government agencies are not our country.
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Just stop. That's a ridiculous assertion. The CIA and NSA are integral parts of our country. Most of those serving in those agencies forgot more about being a patriot than Trump will ever know. It's one reason why some of this country's greatest patriots, who are also life long republicans and conservatives, think he's a POS
 
#39,062
#39,062
hog88 said:
No, at worst he believed VP over the heads of a couple agencies. The government is not our country.
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BB would really go nuts over Abe Lincoln's quote about resorting to revolution if you find your government doesn't suit you. Of course, that was before Abe became president ... apparently he "evolved" because a government official could never change opinions.
 
#39,064
#39,064
USAFgolferVol said:
That he might have been wrong can certainly be debated. Trump is the most corrupt President of modern times and it's nowhere close. Can't be debated
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Sure it can. Corrupt would imply he’s profiting from the office, by his financial disclosures and the many articles linked on this board about his business revenue being down it appears that he is not. So just what is he gaining?
 
#39,068
#39,068
hog88 said:
Sure it can. Corrupt would imply he’s profiting from the office, by his financial disclosures and the many articles linked on this board about his business revenue being down it appears that he is not. So just what is he gaining?
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Doesn't mean he, as principle owner, isn't still reaping profits. He's stolen from charities. He's stolen from students....I'm not going on and on. Another "just stop". You're way too smart to be making such ridiculous claims
 
#39,069
#39,069
Septic said:
Patriotism is literally devotion and support of one's country. Try as you might, you can't separate the government and its policies from the "country" - especially when the country's governments policies are being dismissed in favor of the support perennial enemy.
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Our country is it’s citizens and the constitution we all live by. Our government is simply an institution that deserves daily skepticism.
 
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#39,070
#39,070
hog88 said:
Obama fired Generals who disagreed with his assessment of various situations and I cannot recall ever calling him unpatriotic. Wrong, stupid and corrupt maybe but not unpatriotic.
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You are drawing a false equivalency. Did Barack Obama ever publicly side with a foreign adversary against his own DNI?
 
#39,072
#39,072
BowlBrother85 said:
They are one part of the country. As President, Trump had no business siding with Vladimir Putin and against the conclusions of our intelligence community. Trump received no backing on this from fellow Republicans and that is why he quickly backtracked when he got back to DC. If Trump did nothing wrong, then why did he change his story later? Remember? Trump later tried to claim that he had misspoken. It was a ridiculous claim... but he tried to make it.
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By your reasoning questioning Trump or supporting the word of any foreign person is unpatriotic.
 
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#39,073
#39,073
hog88 said:
Our country is it’s citizens and the constitution we all live by. Our government is simply an institution that deserves daily skepticism.
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That looks good on paper but fails the litmus test of suitability when applied to geopolitical importance, which is what is being discussed. Siding with and acting on an adversary's intelligence while eschewing the intelligence of every US intelligence agency, goes beyond being unpatriotic, in my opinion.
 
#39,074
#39,074
hog88 said:
Our country is it’s citizens and the constitution we all live by. Our government is simply an institution that deserves daily skepticism.
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Our country also includes the government, and you are correct that it deserves daily skepticism, but Trump did more than express skepticism of our national intelligence. He sided with Vladimir Putin. He did not have to, but he did. And if what he did was right, why did he basically recant the next day? Trump tried to say that he had just misspoken. Why do that if you are confident in what you have just said?
 
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