The (many) indictments of Donald Trump

[whodeycin85]

Doesn't the SCOTUS ruling in Richardson v US 1999 make the judges instructions unconstitutional??

Richardson v. United States, 526 U.S. 813 (1999)

Richardson v. United States

supreme.justia.com

 

[turbovol]

Here's a good NYTimes piece on Judge Cannon, her judicial style, lack of experience and why the case has gone nowhere in 10 months. The
essential reason is that the defense, predictably, has throw up a lot of motions aimed mostly at delaying the trial--motions that most judges would rule on and dispense with rather quickly--but Cannon quite clearly seems determined to give the defense the benefit of the doubt on all of them, no matter how dubious, and then spends weeks/months mulling them without making any decision. One example is that she has yet to rule on a ludicrous motion in which the defense wants to examine all the internal emails by prosecutors in the weeks/months leading up to charges being brought against Trump to see if the prosecutors were acting "vindictively.' This is absurd and should have been waved off in a day. The only issue is the law(s) and whether it/they were broken--which was already decided by a grand jury in Washington, which is why there is a trial.

And then there was this, from the story:

"She was already under scrutiny when she got the classified documents case last June because of a decision she made well before the indictment was filed. That ruling, which shut down the investigation into Mr. Trump until an independent arbiter sorted through reams of materials seized from Mar-a-Lago, was so legally dubious that the appeals court sitting over her reversed it in unusually scathing terms."

Emerging Portrait of Judge in Trump Documents Case: Prepared, Prickly and Slow

Judge Aileen Cannon’s handling of court hearings offers insights into how the case accusing Donald Trump of illegally retaining classified material has become bogged down in unresolved issues.

www.nytimes.com

 

[85SugarVol]

Yes, but only during summation, which is absolutely insane.

Bragg will get his conviction with every possible assist from Judge Merchan. The conviction has no chance of surviving appeal, but that was never the point.

What did DA say was the underlying crime?

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Man, I can tell some salty tears are welling up in this thread. Please save some for me when the guilty verdict is announced. MAGA tears are delicious.

If guilty verdict is true an appeal process would automatically be in place don't you think? Nobody will be shedding tears for Trump .... we're all grown ups on here cat lady.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

What did DA say was the underlying crime?

FEC - Federal Election contribution violation over limit

Tax - Including the reimbursement amount as non employee comp on a 1099

 

[bamawriter]

What did DA say was the underlying crime?

FECA. Over which Bragg has no jurisdiction.

 

[Sudden Impact]

I remember you being quite giddy over the prospect of all of this.

I have always stated that the Democrats would do anything and take any route to convict Trump. This was quite obvious and I stated clearly that they would throw everything into it including the kitchen sink. I stated it before the Jan 6 group got started. Was it my opinion? yes. Did it happen or is it happening yes.

The only case I was sensitive to of which I know the most about and have had to live by on a day to day basis is the sensistive document case because of my experience in working with Highly classified information, again, on a daily basis.
I also believe that Biden and Pence should have received punishment for their crimes as well and you can split hairs on the returning and search of these documents. As for Trump, he should not get a pass on this case as well and his case is different but the bottom line is that he is guilty. The degrees of Punishment will vary on a case basis.

As for the staffers that allowed this to happen without their knowledge, they should be punished as well. So fry them all three and feed them beans for the rest of their lives. These other matters are side shows and just part of the kitchen sink.
But as they say it's the little cases that get the big ones started.

 

[Sudden Impact]

So we have a judge in the documents case that appears sympathetic to the Trump defense.
And we have a judge in the hush money case that appears sympathetic to the Trump prosecution.

Yet you only seem interested in the political gamesmanship surrounding the documents judge.

Why is that?

This is just a mudding of the waters to support your argument and a convenience for you to feel good about your beliefs. Blame it on somebody so it must be that both judges are screwed up between the prosecutions/defense of others.

This happens all the time and it is just the luck of the draw with judges, some good, some bad, some sympathetic and some are not. Both are worried about job security and futures. Congress, why are they bailing on both sides?

 

[jmacvols1]

 

[Sandman 423]

Who is more likely to burn shiz when the verdict comes in?

 

[GoodTimeVol]

I have always stated that the Democrats would do anything and take any route to convict Trump. This was quite obvious and I stated clearly that they would throw everything into it including the kitchen sink. I stated it before the Jan 6 group got started. Was it my opinion? yes. Did it happen or is it happening yes. The only case I was sensitive to of which I know the most about and have had to live by on a day to day basis is the sensistive document case because of my experience in working with Highly classified information, again, on a daily basis.
I also believe that Biden and Pence should have received punishment for their crimes as well and you can split hairs on the returning and search of these documents. As for Trump, he should not get a pass on this case as well and his case is different but the bottom line is that he is guilty. The degrees of Punishment will vary on a case basis.
As for the staffers that allowed this to happen without their knowledge, they should be punished as well. So fry them all three and feed them beans for the rest of their lives. These other matters are side shows and just part of the kitchen sink.
But as they say it's the little cases that get the big ones started.

You have a sitting president in violation of the same law for mishandling classified documents. Working with classified documents myself there is no alibi or excuse for mishandling it in anyway based on the sheer training involved with it. OPSEC is no joke, however it happens often.

Punishment wise do I think jail time is warranted? No, maybe house arrest at the most. If he were caught trying to sell them then yeah jail time for sure.

This trial is a farce though and only going to strengthen Trumps popularity leading into the election regardless of the verdict.

 

[Sandman 423]

You have a sitting president in violation of the same law for mishandling classified documents. Working with classified documents myself there is no alibi or excuse for mishandling it in anyway based on the sheer training involved with it. OPSEC is no joke, however it happens often.

Punishment wise do I think jail time is warranted? No, maybe house arrest at the most. If he were caught trying to sell them then yeah jail time for sure.

This trial is a farce though and only going to strengthen Trumps popularity leading into the election regardless of the verdict.

One major difference is that the docs that President Biden has he stole to begin with, no?

 

[whodeycin85]

I have always stated that the Democrats would do anything and take any route to convict Trump. This was quite obvious and I stated clearly that they would throw everything into it including the kitchen sink. I stated it before the Jan 6 group got started. Was it my opinion? yes. Did it happen or is it happening yes.

The only case I was sensitive to of which I know the most about and have had to live by on a day to day basis is the sensistive document case because of my experience in working with Highly classified information, again, on a daily basis.
I also believe that Biden and Pence should have received punishment for their crimes as well and you can split hairs on the returning and search of these documents. As for Trump, he should not get a pass on this case as well and his case is different but the bottom line is that he is guilty. The degrees of Punishment will vary on a case basis.

As for the staffers that allowed this to happen without their knowledge, they should be punished as well. So fry them all three and feed them beans for the rest of their lives. These other matters are side shows and just part of the kitchen sink.
But as they say it's the little cases that get the big ones started.

What's the process for a POTUS to declassify a file? Who does he answer too?

 

[Sudden Impact]

You have a sitting president in violation of the same law for mishandling classified documents. Working with classified documents myself there is no alibi or excuse for mishandling it in anyway based on the sheer training involved with it. OPSEC is no joke, however it happens often.

Punishment wise do I think jail time is warranted? No, maybe house arrest at the most. If he were caught trying to sell them then yeah jail time for sure.

This trial is a farce though and only going to strengthen Trumps popularity leading into the election regardless of the verdict.

May I should have clarified, "f*** them and feed them beans" is an expression does not mean jail them. Basically meaning get them out of the picture and move on to more important agenda. Sorry I used country boy terms. I will try another "what is good for the goose is good for the gander" which means treat all three the same, but get it right when you do. Let the cases be heard and then go from there, they all committed a crime.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

FEC - Federal Election contribution violation over limit

Tax - Including the reimbursement amount as non employee comp on a 1099

In 20+ years of working for large companies and volunteering for several leadership roles within AICPA, I have NEVER seen anyone criminally prosecuted for including a reimbursement as non-employee comp on a 1099....

 

[GoodTimeVol]

One major difference is that the docs that President Biden has he stole to begin with, no?

I don’t remember the specifics on why he had the classified info in his garage to begin with but supposedly tried to sell the info to ghost writer for a price, which is another federal law broken.

It’s all in the report, it’s hilarious how corrupt the DOJ is from at the top.

 

[Sudden Impact]

What's the process for a POTUS to declassify a file? Who does he answer too?

The documenting agency for review and determination as to the damage caused by access/release of information contained there in. Also there is a review that takes place as to a former officials need for future use of said document and based on intent of having such document. (ie, why would a former official need a set of OPLANS) Sensitive Information costing loss of lives does not belong in the hands of an ex.
Thinking it was not a good answer, admitting to it was not either.

 

[Orangeburst]

In 20+ years of working for large companies and volunteering for several leadership roles within AICPA, I have NEVER seen anyone criminally prosecuted for including a reimbursement as non-employee comp on a 1099....

nm..it was just a personal question about being a CPA.

 

[camp_steveo]

100% election interference.

FJB

 

[whodeycin85]

The documenting agency for review and determination as to the damage caused by access/release of information contained there in. Also there is a review that takes place as to a former officials need for future use of said document and based on intent of having such document. (ie, why would a former official need a set of OPLANS) Sensitive Information costing loss of lives does not belong in the hands of an ex.
Thinking it was not a good answer, admitting to it was not either.

Thanks for the info...didn't realize the POTUS doesn't have declassifying authority. So unelected people in those positions control what's classified and what isn't...seems like a good reason to start blowing it all up...unless your mistaken.

 

[hog88]

Thanks for the info...didn't realize the POTUS doesn't have declassifying authority. So unelected people in those positions control what's classified and what isn't...seems like a good reason to start blowing it all up...unless your mistaken.

POTUS can declassify anything minus nuclear arms material. No review, nobody can overrule him. Is there something he needs to sign, write a memo or something? That I don't know.

 

[Sudden Impact]

POTUS can declassify anything minus nuclear arms material. No review, nobody can overrule him. Is there something he needs to sign, write a memo or something? That I don't know.

No, he cannot without a review by the classifying agency and the departments of which information can be compromised. So your are saying HUMINT documents can be declassified? You need to check your sources, furthermore, you make it sound like Trump. Real simple process. Declassification is not like some would want you to believe. It has to be sent back to the governing agencies so that they can review the damage assessment. A lengthy process and do not kid yourself. It appears like some think it is I have declassified this document it is packed and taking this home for my own. Wrong answer. Emergency Operations, non nuclear Key Assets targeted are not Nuclear but part of the Defense Plan will not be declassified without review. I don't know what you been told, but it is not the way you describe. Those that did not track those documents should also go be fired and punished. There is a process to declassification of documents that all must follow including the President whether you believe or not, I don't care.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Thanks for the info...didn't realize the POTUS doesn't have declassifying authority. So unelected people in those positions control what's classified and what isn't...seems like a good reason to start blowing it all up...unless your mistaken.

He does have declassifying authority, but must follow the process and some information may not be deemed declassifiable. Furthermore, if he does declassify it, it does not mean he can take it home. So quit twisting words to fit your narrative and desires. It may be declassified as to a need to know and when he leaves office he doesn't have a need to know.

 

[85SugarVol]

This is just a mudding of the waters to support your argument and a convenience for you to feel good about your beliefs. Blame it on somebody so it must be that both judges are screwed up between the prosecutions/defense of others.

This happens all the time and it is just the luck of the draw with judges, some good, some bad, some sympathetic and some are not. Both are worried about job security and futures. Congress, why are they bailing on both sides?

What argument did I make?

It is you that is clearly interested in gamesmanship with Judge Cannon, and gleefully commenting on political ploys in her courtroom.

But you clearly are not at all interested in Judge Merchan and what is going on in his courtroom.

Why is that?

 

[hog88]

No, he cannot without a review by the classifying agency and the departments of which information can be compromised. So your are saying HUMINT documents can be declassified? You need to check your sources, furthermore, you make it sound like Trump. Real simple process. Declassification is not like some would want you to believe. It has to be sent back to the governing agencies so that they can review the damage assessment. A lengthy process and do not kid yourself. It appears like some think it is I have declassified this document it is packed and taking this home for my own. Wrong answer. Emergency Operations, non nuclear Key Assets targeted are not Nuclear but part of the Defense Plan will not be declassified without review. I don't know what you been told, but it is not the way you describe. Those that did not track those documents should also go be fired and punished. There is a process to declassification of documents that all must follow including the President whether you believe or not, I don't care.

You might want to do some reading.

Procedures for Declassifying Intelligence of Public Interest

Declassification by the PresidentPublic Interest Declassification Board Requests for declassification can also be made to the Public Interest Declassification Board (PIDB). The Public Interest Declassification Act of 2000 (Title VII of P.L. 106-567) established the Public Interest Declassification Board (PIDB) to provide advice to the President and other senior national security officials “on the systematic, thorough, coordinated, and comprehensive identification, collection, review for declassification, and release to Congress, interested agencies, and the public of declassified records and materials ... that are of archival value, including records and materials of extraordinary public interest.” The PIDB meets monthly to make recommendations on declassification of records to the President who makes a final decision.

In 2021, for example, the PIDB recommended the President declassify and release particular records related to the September 11 terrorist attacks. In making its recommendations, the PIDB includes input from Congress “made by the committee of jurisdiction or by a member of the committee of jurisdiction, to declassify certain records, to evaluate the proper classification of certain records, or to reconsider a declination to declassify specific records” (50 U.S.C. §3355(b)(5)).Executive OrderThe President has the authority to declassify documents in the public interest that originated in any department or agency of the executive branch. One example is Executive Order 14040, Declassification Reviews of Certain Documents Concerning the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001, signed by President Biden on September 3, 2021. This executive order directed government departments and agencies that originated records pertaining to September 11 to conduct declassification reviews to disclose as much of this material as possible in the public interest.

Fact check explores presidential authority to declassify

Under the U.S. Constitution, the president as commander in chief is given broad powers to classify and declassify such information, often through use of executive orders.

Basic Laws and Authorities