The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

[Dr Dread]

Martin felt threatened to leave his porch and go looking for zimmerman who was walking back to his car?

Martin wasn’t skinny although at least you upgraded him from 15 to 17 now. You can kill someone bashing their head on concrete. That’s considered deadly force

There is no disputing that Martin was in the wrong here

Martin never made it home.

 

[Dr Dread]

Like Christopher Newsom and Channon Christian?

Where are the people who committed those crimes????

How much effort was made by the DA to coverup those crimes????

 

[Behr]

C'mon man. Did he deserve to die no.....but you yourself walk around going into people's property and eventually you will find trouble. This isn't that hard.

Come on man, it must be hard

I already said that was stupid and we wouldn't be talking about it if it wasn't. Duh.

What else was stupid by Arbery?

 

[hndog609]

Excellent job twisting facts.

He never made it home. The statement you’re quoting was made to his girlfriend on the phone, but he didn’t say he was going back. It was made while he was trying to walk home.

When I was 17, if someone was stalking me around a neighborhood in the middle of the night to the point where I felt creeped out, I may have very well ducked off somewhere in order to surprise him and get the upper hand too. Not saying that was the smartest move, but nonetheless, it would be totally about defending myself.

I would not look forward to explaining harm coming to somebody when my story started with "I was lying in wait to pounce...".

 

[jp1]

Come on man, it must be hard

I already said that was stupid and we wouldn't be talking about it if it wasn't. Duh.

What else was stupid by Arbery?

Do we need multiple stupid things? I guess I'm confused to your question.

 

[bamawriter]

Did I say that was ok? Absolutely not.

I never accused you of saying it was okay. What you did say you restated here:

Having said that, I dont make it a habit of snooping around people's property (once, or on multiple occasions). If you do it enough, right or wrong you are going to see trouble.

So, again, are you arguing that by going onto that construction site, Arbery should have reasonably expected to be chased and assaulted by gun-toting men? If not, then I cannot fathom what your point could possibly be, because whatever "trouble" Arbery might have expected, that's the "trouble" he found.

 

[Weezer]

Because i am stating a factual statement, all three were stupid in this situation (FACT). Arbery would be alive if he hadn't attacked the son and tried to grab his shotgun (while this isn't 100% fact, it is pretty likely since they had just called 911, and had multiple opportunities to shoot him if they had wanted to, that Arbery if he had kept running or stopped to talk to them, he wouldn't have been shot

Would he also still be alive if they hadn't armed up and chased him? Would he still be alive if the son hadn't gotten out of the truck, or at least not have exited the truck with a loaded shotgun? You keep glossing over these facts so you can blame Arbery for going after the son while in fear for his life. Were they in fear for their lives? Since they had guns and hunted him down, I highly doubt it.

JMO, but it's more about what you refuse to acknowledge that makes it sound like you are indeed defending them. There was no burglary. There was no justification for citizen arrest. They created the situation. They were both armed, and Arbery was in fear for his life when he acted. Every time these points are brought up, you say, "yeah, but". It absolutely comes across as you believe these guys were justified in their actions. They weren't chasing down a rapist, or a pedophile, or a murderer, or even a burglar. They were hunting a trespasser. All of this over ****ing trespassing. Their reaction was absurd and criminal, and they deserve to be punished.

 

[jp1]

I never accused you of saying it was okay. What you did say you restated here:



So, again, are you arguing that by going onto that construction site, Arbery should have reasonably expected to be chased and assaulted by gun-toting men? If not, then I cannot fathom what your point could possibly be, because whatever "trouble" Arbery might have expected, that's the "trouble" he found.

My point was to say if I go into someone's property uninvited on multiple occasions I should have a good idea of the possibilities. I guess that would include getting chased or assaulted by someone. It also wouldn't surprise me if they were carrying a firearm because they do not know my intentions, especially since I have no business being there.

I have seen on multiple occasions in this thread that it is somehow okay for people to go into a house under construction. Perhaps I'm weird because I would never dream of doing that without the owners permission. What makes that okay?

 

[Weezer]

I'm saying with the facts presented in their entirety, it's not as open-and-shut a case for felony murder as some here would like to believe. I've been through a lot of different types of court cases and grand jury hearings, and the "experts" and media are often shocked when cases don't go "their way".

As i said before, i believe this case will hinge (if it goes to trial without plea deals) on the jury's belief if the McMichaels were trying to detain Arbery or had intent to aggravated assault him with the firearms. Jurors are funny creatures for lots of reasons

I agree jurors are unpredictable. They sometimes act on their own biases rather than adhering to the written law. I still contend anyone with a lick of common sense can see these two acted outside of the law and deserve to be punished.

 

[Weezer]

C'mon man. Did he deserve to die no.....but you yourself walk around going into people's property and eventually you will find trouble. This isn't that hard.

No one would be complaining if he were arrested. It's the fact he was killed while being hunted by two civilians who had no legal authority that people take issue with.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Would he also still be alive if they hadn't armed up and chased him? Would he still be alive if the son hadn't gotten out of the truck, or at least not have exited the truck with a loaded shotgun? You keep glossing over these facts so you can blame Arbery for going after the son while in fear for his life. Were they in fear for their lives? Since they had guns and hunted him down, I highly doubt it.

JMO, but it's more about what you refuse to acknowledge that makes it sound like you are indeed defending them. There was no burglary. There was no justification for citizen arrest. They created the situation. They were both armed, and Arbery was in fear for his life when he acted. Every time these points are brought up, you say, "yeah, but". It absolutely comes across as you believe these guys were justified in their actions. They weren't chasing down a rapist, or a pedophile, or a murderer, or even a burglar. They were hunting a trespasser. All of this over ****ing trespassing. Their reaction was absurd and criminal, and they deserve to be punished.

You don't know what happened either. It's likely that Arbery did his reach into the waistband move just like he had done on a prior occasion according to the witness only this time McMichaels lowered gun instead of skittering away. With his bluff called, Arbery had a split second to decide what to do and he chose wrong.

 

[Rickyvol77]

No one would be complaining if he were arrested. It's the fact he was killed while being hunted by two civilians who had no legal authority that people take issue with.

That's not necessarily true, several here in this thread said it's completely fine and normal to go through people's property and into their houses

 

[jp1]

No one would be complaining if he were arrested. It's the fact he was killed while being hunted by two civilians who had no legal authority that people take issue with.

Totally agree. What they did shouldn't have occurred.

 

[Rickyvol77]

My point was to say if I go into someone's property uninvited on multiple occasions I should have a good idea of the possibilities. I guess that would include getting chased or assaulted by someone. It also wouldn't surprise me if they were carrying a firearm because they do not know my intentions, especially since I have no business being there.

I have seen on multiple occasions in this thread that it is somehow okay for people to go into a house under construction. Perhaps I'm weird because I would never dream of doing that without the owners permission. What makes that okay?

Because some people weren't raised to respect other's property and rights

 

[Weezer]

You don't know what happened either. It's likely that Arbery did his reach into the waistband move just like he had done on a prior occasion according to the witness only this time McMichaels lowered gun instead of skittering away. With his bluff called, Arbery had a split second to decide what to do and he chose wrong.

Why did the son get out of the truck with his shotgun? His father was in the back of the truck and armed as well? If they were just looking to talk, why didn't the son leave his gun in the truck and let his dad cover him? The father and son had a lot more than a few seconds to decide what they were going to do, yet they still chose wrong. So who is more to blame? The people who created the situation with bad choice after bad choice, or the person who made a bad choice while in fear for his life?

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Why did the son get out of the truck with his shotgun? His father was in the back of the truck and armed as well? If they were just looking to talk, why didn't the son leave his gun in the truck and let his dad cover him? The father and son had a lot more than a few seconds to decide what they were going to do, yet they still chose wrong. So who is more to blame? The people who created the situation with bad choice after bad choice, or the person who made a bad choice while in fear for his life?

The last time the son slowed down to try and assist the witness/neighbor who had authority to watch out for the property is when Aubrey reached into his waistband as if to grab a piece and scared everyone off. Any sane person would want a gun in hand if confronting him a second time.

 

[jp1]

Why did the son get out of the truck with his shotgun? His father was in the back of the truck and armed as well? If they were just looking to talk, why didn't the son leave his gun in the truck and let his dad cover him? The father and son had a lot more than a few seconds to decide what they were going to do, yet they still chose wrong. So who is more to blame? The people who created the situation with bad choice after bad choice, or the person who made a bad choice while in fear for his life?

I guess to me, I'm not debating who is more to blame. They are all (McMichaels and Arbury) to blame for this happening. Arbury received punishment (just or not, fitting or not) and now the McMichaels likely will too.

 

[Weezer]

That's not necessarily true, several here in this thread said it's completely fine and normal to go through people's property and into their houses

Have you even read @GreyWolf1129 's posts? He's actually explained GA law, and how these guys acted outside of it. And he's a LEO in the area where it happened. But it's like you've ignored what he's said completely. Nothing was taken from the house, so it was not burglary. At most, it was trespassing which is a misdemeanor. A misdemeanor does not rise to the level of the citizen arrest statute. This wouldn't even be a thing if the McMichael's had let the police do their job rather than going off half-cocked looking to be billy badasses.

 

[jcvols24]

If they pursue murder then i think they are overreacting and it will fail. Manslaughter maybe. Once Arbery made the decision to attack it became a fight for life and someone was going to lose.

We will never know the thought process Arbery had in doing this but Mcmichaels is 100% responsible for forcing him into making this decision by initiating the confrontation which should rule out self defense.

If Arbery thought his life in danger then it was he who acted in self defense not Mcmichaels. He put the truck between him and the gun to get closer and tried closing the gap on the front end before Mcmichaels could react. It was absolutely his highest percentage of success if he had decided they intended to shoot regardless.

 

[VolStrom]

That's not necessarily true, several here in this thread said it's completely fine and normal to go through people's property and into their houses

In what context was that said? A house under construction it's very common for people to go in a look around unless the builder puts up a no trespassing sign and it's usually invited if it's for sale. Generally of the houses I see being built once it is framed and the doors and windows are on it it gets locked and the subs have keys to get in when they need to. There is also very little to steal since copper plumbing is all but gone and things like AC units are not installed until it is sold.

 

[bamawriter]

My point was to say if I go into someone's property uninvited on multiple occasions I should have a good idea of the possibilities.
I guess that would include getting chased or assaulted by someone. It also wouldn't surprise me if they were carrying a firearm because they do not know my intentions, especially since I have no business being there.

Problem is that they had absolutely no idea if Arbery had any business there or not. It wasn't their property, and the owner never told them anything regarding any trespassing issues.

I have seen on multiple occasions in this thread that it is somehow okay for people to go into a house under construction. Perhaps I'm weird because I would never dream of doing that without the owners permission. What makes that okay?

I've done it many times. Never thought twice about it. If the owner or a contractor had told me to leave, I would have done so. If one of them is having a bad day, I figure worse case scenario is they call the cops on me and the cops tell me to leave.

Under no scenario would I have considered the possibility that a group of gun-toting peckerwoods would arm up and try to chase me in their trucks.

 

[Weezer]

The last time the son slowed down to try and assist the witness/neighbor who had authority to watch out for the property is when Aubrey reached into his waistband as if to grab a piece and scared everyone off. Any sane person would want a gun in hand if confronting him a second time.

That's not the way that story read. It said that the son claimed Arbery had made that motion, not that the neighbor had witnessed it himself. And even so, there were two McMichael's, why did both need to be armed if they were just looking to talk?

 

[bamawriter]

You don't know what happened either. It's likely that Arbery did his reach into the waistband move just like he had done on a prior occasion according to the witness only this time McMichaels lowered gun instead of skittering away. With his bluff called, Arbery had a split second to decide what to do and he chose wrong.

What facts to you have before you to conclude that's "likely?"

 

[bamawriter]

Because some people weren't raised to respect other's property and rights

And the guy who owned the property, and thus had rights, didn't pursue Arbery and did not request that the Michaels and Bryan do so on his behalf. How do you feel about acting on someone else's rights without their consent?

 

[bamawriter]

The last time the son slowed down to try and assist the witness/neighbor who had authority to watch out for the property is when Aubrey reached into his waistband as if to grab a piece and scared everyone off. Any sane person would want a gun in hand if confronting him a second time.

According to Travis and Travis alone. If they were genuinely concerned that Arbery was armed, wouldn't the reasonable course of action be to avoid a confrontation?