The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

#276
#276
Rasputin_Vol said:
@DEFENDTHISHOUSE & @midnight orange
This is a very interesting situation. I'm not sure if I totally agree with the highlighted. I think citizens do play a role in policing their neighborhoods, also. However, what I do believe is that these two guys bungled this and went about a citizens arrest in the wrong manner...

What is you opinion on the highlighted statement?
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They certainly bungled the situation. I believe a homeowner has a right to protect his/her property. That right extends to his/her life because he/she is a property owner of their own life. What you don’t get to do is chase down a supposed burglar. Once a suspect fleas, you should stop there. Operating under our broken system as it is today, the highlighted comment above is accurate. Unless, of course, it’s your property and the police have yet to respond and there is a clear and imminent threat. (Which doesn’t appear to be the case here)

The line should be clear, there should be no chasing of a supposed suspect by a citizen once the accused has fled your property or is no longer a threat to you or your property.
 
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#277
#277
Weezer said:
They didn't just have guns. They engaged in pursuit. They blocked the road. They created the entire situation. This isn't a 2A argument, which it seems you kind of think it is. This is about two guys with guns acting irresponsibly.
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You guys are making it into a second amendment thing not I. They went to confront the guy to see if he was the one responsible for the robberies. There are witnesses that say he was looking in Windows and stuff so they had a reason to be suspicious. I see nothing wrong with that, it appears you do. I don't think they have the right to detain him. I do think they have the right to be be armed. I don't think they have the right to threaten him with the gun. The problem is we don't know the answers to those questions. Despite that you've convicted them just for carrying a gun and confronting the man. That's not enough in my book.
 
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#278
#278
InVOLuntary said:
My only problem with your stance is you seem to be convicting him just because he has a gun. What we don't know is what actually started the physical confrontation. If he pointed the gun at the guy and told him to stop then he fits your description. If he held the gun down and had words with him and the guy lunged at him that's different to me.
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I don't mean to come across that way.

I'm convicting him (my opinion) because he brought weapons AND decided to get out of vehicle. If he wanted to help the cops, fine...stay on phone with LEOs AND stay in the vehicle. I support him Bringing his gun in case he's attacked. But he put himself in an unsafe position by getting out of vehicle. His decision making was not optimal.
 
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#279
#279
InVOLuntary said:
Ok. What if they followed him in the truck without guns and the guy jumped out in front of the truck accidentally, would they be guilty of murder too?
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It would be a different situation so I have no idea.
 
#280
#280
vol445 said:
We had the same thing happen here years ago a property owner caught someone stealing things from an outbuilding and the guy shot the thief. He was charged by grand jury stood trial and found not guilty. The their was loaded w drugs per autopsy report. Owner stated he came towards him when he shot and killed him

On the other side had a cousin that did a burglary got shot by owner. Went to jail and sued owner.
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In this case, if they'd actually seen him stealing there wouldn't be much argument.
 
#282
#282
Rickyvol77 said:
So if the guy had successfully taken the gun and killed the guy what should the outcome have been?
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This is a horrible hypothetical. You could easily come up with several more which are better.
 
#284
#284
McDad said:
I don't mean to come across that way.

I'm convicting him (my opinion) because he brought weapons AND decided to get out of vehicle. If he wanted to help the cops, fine...stay on phone with LEOs AND stay in the vehicle. I support him Bringing his gun in case he's attacked. But he put himself in an unsafe position by getting out of vehicle. His decision making was not optimal.
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That's where I disagree. If it had played out differently where the guy ran by the truck, cuss words were exchanged and he kept on running and nothing happened, would there still be a crime?
 
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#290
#290
InVOLuntary said:
You guys are making it into a second amendment thing not I. They went to confront the guy to see if he was the one responsible for the robberies. There are witnesses that say he was looking in Windows and stuff so they had a reason to be suspicious. I see nothing wrong with that, it appears you do. I don't think they have the right to detain him. I do think they have the right to be be armed. I don't think they have the right to threaten him with the gun. The problem is we don't know the answers to those questions. Despite that you've convicted them just for carrying a gun and confronting the man. That's not enough in my book.
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No, I've convicted them for creating a situation where a man was unnecessarily killed by their malfeasance.
 
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#291
#291
InVOLuntary said:
Lol. You should evil kineval the grand canyon with those leaps you're taking.
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It's not really a huge leap. The report lists a third participant. The filmer was following the runner with a phone in one hand. No one is saying anything with certainty, but it would explain a lot.
 
#293
#293
Weezer said:
Bull ****.
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I agree, he brought the gun into the situation, when the deceased man went for it, he used it to defend himself. Had he not introduced the gun into the equation the deceased would not be deceased. He deserves to be charged IMO, but the facts don't rise to a murder charge IMO.
 
#294
#294
bamawriter said:
Who's to say that Cletus wouldn't have shot him in the back?
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Who's to say the guy ran around the truck hit the one guy ran over to the other guy and tried to take his gun away and got shot in the process? Who's to say he initiated the whole physical confrontation?

That's my whole point, there's not while lot on that video that tells the story.
 
#295
#295
InVOLuntary said:
Lol. You should evil kineval the grand canyon with those leaps you're taking.
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You should join the women's gymnastics team because you're doing some amazing backflips trying to justify what these guys did. You could win a gold medal.
 
#296
#296
InVOLuntary said:
That's where I disagree. If it had played out differently where the guy ran by the truck, cuss words were exchanged and he kept on running and nothing happened, would there still be a crime?
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Is blocking a public road illegal? Is it a crime?

That's the only one I would see in your scenario ad laid out.
 
#297
#297
Weezer said:
Not at all, but you're describing a completely different situation where the two men never stopped their vehicle to confront the deceased.
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I can't believe you can't see this. If they'd run over the jogger the implication would be that they intentionally ran him over.
 
#299
#299
bamawriter said:
It's not really a huge leap. The report lists a third participant. The filmer was following the runner with a phone in one hand. No one is saying anything with certainty, but it would explain a lot.
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Whoever was filming wasn't with the guy who was killed, so why was he following him and filming? It would make sense if he were with the other two.
 
#300
#300
Rickyvol77 said:
Exactly because the guy correctly used his gun in self defense while being attacked
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Was the shooter in fear for his life before or after he and his accomplice chased the man on foot down with their truck while pointing guns at him?
 
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