The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

#2,403
#2,403
Behr said:
I was being facetious with that post, but nothing would surprise me anymore. Unfortunately thinking a guy shouldn't have been chased down and killed means you're an idiot that believes in monsters and dinosaurs.
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I know you brother.
That was for everyone else
 
#2,404
#2,404
GAVol said:
I don't know really. It just seems odd to me that one of them climbed up into the bed of the truck. It's like they had a confronter, a sniper and a cameraman.
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I am not 100% certain on this...I have heard two different narratives...but one of them is that they attempted to get out with Arbery before the video starts, but he reversed direction and ran the other way. If that's the case, I can see them (or Greg) getting out of the truck, and then Greg just jumping in the bed of the truck so they could continue to follow him.

IF that's what happened. I have no personal knowledge on that part of it.
 
#2,406
#2,406
GreyWolf1129 said:
I am not 100% certain on this...I have heard two different narratives...but one of them is that they attempted to get out with Arbery before the video starts, but he reversed direction and ran the other way. If that's the case, I can see them (or Greg) getting out of the truck, and then Greg just jumping in the bed of the truck so they could continue to follow him.

IF that's what happened. I have no personal knowledge on that part of it.
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Your recollection is correct insofar as it matches the police report.
 
#2,407
#2,407
VolStrom said:
I think you're probably a pretty reasonable guy, but this entire thing has played out fairly unusual. The man was killed and wasn't armed while being chased, the classic fight or flight. He tried to flee and they persued him and it got to the point where he felt the need to fight. The redneck white men need to be put in jail because they killed a man for no good reason.
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How is the father going to jail for murder in this situation? He never fired a shot, never made contact with AA. Seems like the police and prosectors are giving in to public outrage.
 
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#2,409
#2,409
bamawriter said:
If it is determined that he is an accessory or accomplice to a crime, he is guilty of that crime.
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I agree with that but for the same charge? Sounded like they were charging both with Murder-1. Son I can see, although I think by the law it more closely fits manslaughter. Father was in on it but I would view more like the getaway driver in a bank robbery.
 
#2,410
#2,410
Bigun said:
I agree with that but for the same charge? Sounded like they were charging both with Murder-1. Son I can see, although I think by the law it more closely fits manslaughter. Father was in on it but I would view more like the getaway driver in a bank robbery.
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A getaway driver in a bank robbery gets charged the same as the guy who puts a gun in the teller's face.
 
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#2,411
#2,411
Bigun said:
I agree with that but for the same charge? Sounded like they were charging both with Murder-1. Son I can see, although I think by the law it more closely fits manslaughter. Father was in on it but I would view more like the getaway driver in a bank robbery.
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Georgia has a pretty tough "party to a crime" law. Basically, if you were there, and contributed to the elements of the offense in any way, then you are just as guilty as the primary offender(s).

Funny thing you mention "getaway driver", because there have been convictions made (and upheld) where the getaway driver in an armed robbery / home invasion was convicted of armed robbery, home invasion, and/or felony murder. Georgia is not the place to think you'll get off easy since all you did was drive the car...
 
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#2,412
#2,412
bamawriter said:
A getaway driver in a bank robbery gets charged the same as the guy who puts a gun in the teller's face.
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Had no idea. I mean, I knew they were charged but not with the same charge as the guys robbing the bank. I guess the difference would come in the sentencing phase. Makes sense though. Gotta wonder if the dad will roll on the son and blame him for everything to try and get off.
 
#2,413
#2,413
bamawriter said:
Your recollection is correct insofar as it matches the police report.
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Yeah, I read the PIO version. I've got it laying around here somewhere. But I've heard that Arbery did / did not reverse direction from a couple of different people who know (or say they know) what the investigation determined, so...

It'll come out. Until then, I don't know for certain.
 
#2,414
#2,414
Bigun said:
Had no idea. I mean, I knew they were charged but not with the same charge as the guys robbing the bank. I guess the difference would come in the sentencing phase. Makes sense though. Gotta wonder if the dad will roll on the son and blame him for everything to try and get off.
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I'd have to think that the DA is more likely to strike a deal with the guy who filmed it from behind.
 
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#2,416
#2,416
GreyWolf1129 said:
Georgia has a pretty tough "party to a crime" law. Basically, if you were there, and contributed to the elements of the offense in any way, then you are just as guilty as the primary offender(s).

Funny thing you mention "getaway driver", because there have been convictions made (and upheld) where the getaway driver in an armed robbery / home invasion was convicted of armed robbery, home invasion, and/or felony murder. Georgia is not the place to think you'll get off easy since all you did was drive the car...
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That is good news IMO. Although I've read other people state the GA Law is pretty lenient to stand your ground, self defense type situations which I'm guessing the McMichaels attorney is going to hammer hard on.
Saw a video today where a former police officer was breaking down the case. He said some things I didn't realize.

1) AA was never jogging. Video shows him walking, stopping at end of driveway of house under constructions, looking around to see if anyone is looking, then going into the house. Also stated that this wasn't a new construction house, it was some sort of construction to an existing house so it would be odd for people to go in uninvited.

2) When AA bolts out of house and starts running it was because a neighbor across the street come out and hollered at him.

3) Then he goes into detail about the McMichaels having a rifle, citizens arrest and some other things. From his opinion and what is known right now, he thinks this is textbook manslaughter, and is afraid if they go to trial for murder they will be found not guilty, and I agree. The police and prosecutors seem like they gave into public pressure and overcharged just like the Zimmerman case.
 
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#2,418
#2,418
Bigun said:
That is good news IMO. Although I've read other people state the GA Law is pretty lenient to stand your ground, self defense type situations which I'm guessing the McMichaels attorney is going to hammer hard on.
Saw a video today where a former police officer was breaking down the case. He said some things I didn't realize.

1) AA was never jogging. Video shows him walking, stopping at end of driveway of house under constructions, looking around to see if anyone is looking, then going into the house. Also stated that this wasn't a new construction house, it was some sort of construction to an existing house so it would be odd for people to go in uninvited.

2) When AA bolts out of house and starts running it was because a neighbor across the street come out and hollered at him.

3) Then he goes into detail about the McMichaels having a rifle, citizens arrest and some other things. From his opinion and what is known right now, he thinks this is textbook manslaughter, and is afraid if they go to trial for murder they will be found not guilty, and I agree. The police and prosecutors seem like they gave into public pressure and overcharged just like the Zimmerman case.
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What is the first sentence of 1 based on?
 
#2,419
#2,419
Bigun said:
That is good news IMO. Although I've read other people state the GA Law is pretty lenient to stand your ground, self defense type situations which I'm guessing the McMichaels attorney is going to hammer hard on.
Saw a video today where a former police officer was breaking down the case. He said some things I didn't realize.

1) AA was never jogging. Video shows him walking, stopping at end of driveway of house under constructions, looking around to see if anyone is looking, then going into the house. Also stated that this wasn't a new construction house, it was some sort of construction to an existing house so it would be odd for people to go in uninvited.

2) When AA bolts out of house and starts running it was because a neighbor across the street come out and hollered at him.
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All of that ranges from clearly accurate to clearly plausible.

3) Then he goes into detail about the McMichaels having a rifle, citizens arrest and some other things. From his opinion and what is known right now, he thinks this is textbook manslaughter, and is afraid if they go to trial for murder they will be found not guilty, and I agree. The police and prosecutors seem like they gave into public pressure and overcharged just like the Zimmerman case.
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They didn't have a rifle. Travis had a shotgun and Greg had a .357.

And the citizen's arrest argument simply isn't going to hold up. If they can't articulate a felony of which they had immediate knowledge, then a judge isn't even going to let it see a jury. If they get a generous judge to allow the defense, any half-decent prosecutor is going to dismantle it in short order.

It certainly could be overcharging, because it would be difficult if not impossible to prove they intended to kill Arbery. However, I don't think it's at all difficult to prove they intended to assault him, and he died during the commission of that assault. I don't see how one can justify not starting off with Murder 1 when talking a plea deal.
 
#2,421
#2,421
We had an incident in Nashville last week where someone left a kid's yard game target in the local NAACP president's front yard. It was immediately referred to as a bullseye by frothing at the mouth local media hungry for an overt act of racism that they could tie into the St. Simons situation, police were criticized for being dismissive during the initial interview so a second report was taken, Democrat state politicians called on the DOJ to investigate the incident as a hate crime, etc. etc. A review of a neighbor's porch camera revealed that the item was put there by another black guy who thought it looked like a flower and he may be mildy retarded. The police arrested the guy for intimidation although the victim now wants the whole thing handled as a mental health issue.
 
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#2,422
#2,422
VolunteerHillbilly said:
We had an incident in Nashville last week where someone left a kid's yard game target in the local NAACP president's front yard. It was immediately referred to as a bullseye by frothing at the mouth local media hungry for an overt act of racism that they could tie into the St. Simons situation, police were criticized for being dismissive during the initial interview so a second report was taken, Democrat state politicians called on the DOJ to investigate the incident as a hate crime, etc. etc. A review of a neighbor's porch camera revealed that the item was put there by another black guy who thought it looked like a flower and he may be mildy retarded. The police arrested the guy for intimidation although the victim now wants the whole thing handled as a mental health issue.
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Never believe the media narrative. Especially for “hate crimes”
 
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#2,423
#2,423
Rickyvol77 said:
Never believe the media narrative. Especially for “hate crimes”
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I think there are people who hate themselves so much that they will purposefully target people who are different then they are to try and make themselves feel a sense of dominance. A lot of people are conditioned to look for that sort of hate-motivated actor under every stone, when in reality I think it is quite rare. The Aubrey killing does not seem to be racially motivated to me. I think the McMichaels would've done the same thing to anyone as far as giving chase. Their neighborhood was being targeted and they had been robbed personally. They were just pissed off and acted on emotion rather than reason.
 
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#2,424
#2,424
GreyWolf1129 said:
More important question: If / when it goes to trial, separate or together?

Could create an "all or nothing" scenario.
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Agreed, and the post directly before yours gives me concern they are overplaying their hand and may end up not getting a conviction when it would be much more likely for manslaughter, which I think may be the proper charge unless more details come to light but I think it's pretty close.
 
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