The NCAA is a shameful organization.

#276
#276
ajvol01 said:
I never said competetive advantage. Was not referring to NCAA policy, just replying to Eric's question.

As bleedorange1983 just posted the advantage PSU gained was not having the negative publicity of the scandal going public in '98 or '01, '02, '03, etc... until Nov '11

Could have easily been worth $60 million in revenue and interest to PSU over that 13 year span.

Also JoePa likely would not have been able to dictate to PSU Board of Trustees and decline to retire like he did after 2004 season - his salary from 2005-2011 worth millions to him and his family; not to mention his retirement package worth another $5.5 million.
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The NCAA is empowered to keep the playing field level in college sports, by making sure that people don't do things that can give them an advantage. The fact that they are going around being moral police now, completely goes against why the Association was even created in the first place. Why people don't understand this, is beyond me.
 
#277
#277
vols4evah said:
well this penalty is far worse then SMU got. I dont recall SMU being fined $60 million please correct me if I am wrong.

Plus the rules for giving the death penalty prevented them from doing that to Penn state.

All in all I would say that PSU football wont be competitive again for at least 10 years.
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Not to be a dick but you're wrong about the NCAA being prevented in handing out the DP. They were going to. The university and BOT agreed to the options, thus satisfying the NCAA. Think "plea agreement".

Listen to the president's statement again. He says as much.
 
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#278
#278
whoever mentioned the clery act, good grief...has nothing to do with ncaa...is a federal statute and if violated there are punishments prescribed.
 
#279
#279
milohimself said:
I'm no attorney either but it's worth looking up on wikipedia if you ever get the chance.

Basically, the federal government is already in a place to accomplish more or less what the ncaa needlessly just gave itself the authority to do.

The ncaa now has a massive amount of new authority over public institutions for which it is accountable to nobody so they could do something the government was going to do anyway
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I understood that the NCAA requested special permission from other member institutions (i.e. college presidents) to dole out this punishment.

Is that incorrect?

I also don't see this as a new normal for NCAA - simply an extreme circumstance and opportunity for swift justice.

NCAA may have just saved federal taxpayers bilions with the way/speed that Washington DC runs things.

We don't want/need to have congresional hearings for this too - baseball's steroid investigation was bad enough.
 
#280
#280
g8terh8ter_eric said:
The NCAA is empowered to keep the playing field level in college sports, by making sure that people don't do things that can give them an advantage. The fact that they are going around being moral police now, completely goes against why the Association was even created in the first place. Why people don't understand this, is beyond me.
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The original reason why the NCAA was originally founded

The NCAA was founded in 1906 to protect young people from the dangerous and exploitive athletics practices of the time.
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History - NCAA.org

Is there any more extreme case of exploiting young people than a pedophile using his level of access to a major college football program to lure and rape victims?
 
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#281
#281
g8terh8ter_eric said:
The NCAA is empowered to keep the playing field level in college sports, by making sure that people don't do things that can give them an advantage. The fact that they are going around being moral police now, completely goes against why the Association was even created in the first place. Why people don't understand this, is beyond me.
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Do you seriously not understand how covering up a scandal can be a competitive advantage? Especially for a program that is supposedly built around morals and honesty. Penn State thought that they could avoid any penalties/PR damage from the scandal by keeping it quiet, therefore giving them a competitive advantage when they would have obviously been put at a disadvantage if caught, just like they are right now.
 
#283
#283
bleedorange0037 said:
No it's not even close. Money is of little consequence in this whole deal. It's going to be $12.5M for 5 years, PSU will easily just pay that and move on. It's been 2 1/2 decades since the NCAA laid SMU to waste, and they still aren't even a shadow of what they once were. Penn State will struggle for a few years, but in time should be to where they were prior to today, which was an average to slightly above average Big 10 team.

The NCAA rules don't provide for them to have ANY jurisdiction to act on this case, yet they did it anyway. If they're going to act just to appease a vocal mob, why not just swing for the fences and at least make an effort to hand out a punishment that fits the crime.
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Well I think the mere fact that the administration covered up an illegal ongoing crime for 14 years to protect their football program constitutes a huge lack of institutional control.

If all of this hadnt been done to protect the football program I would agree with you, but in this case football played the major role in the crime.

also as for money when you consider that the big 10 just took away all money gained from the conference I have to think that $60 million is really going to hurt and the football program will be in the red for years.
 
#284
#284
TXA&M07 said:
Not to be a dick but you're wrong about the NCAA being prevented in handing out the DP. They were going to. The university and BOT agreed to the options, thus satisfying the NCAA. Think "plea agreement".

Listen to the president's statement again. He says as much.
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Just because he says it doesn't mean they had the authority to do so...what the heck you expect him to say? the ncaa has been on the losing end of a number of lawsuits in which they thought their actions were justified.
 
#285
#285
bleedorange1983 said:
Do you seriously not understand how covering up a scandal can be a competitive advantage? Especially for a program that is supposedly built around morals and honesty. Penn State thought that they could avoid any penalties/PR damage from the scandal by keeping it quiet, therefore giving them a competitive advantage when they would have obviously been put at a disadvantage if caught, just like they are right now.
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They were still having a better recruiting year that we currently are, and this was in the midst of all the allegations and the NCAA running it's mouth too. Seems like people trying to point out that they had some type of advantage in recruiting by covering it all up, is pretty much baseless based on this year's recruiting alone. Just admit it, people just want to see an institution punished for something that a few people conspired to keep quiet, even though the few involved, are either about to be behind bars, broke, humiliated, or dead. This isn't even remotely about football, its about people wanting to see justice in any way they can, no matter who it hurts that is innocent or not involved. People won't admit that though.
 
#286
#286
PowerSweep said:
Just because he says it doesn't mean they had the authority to do so...what the heck you expect him to say? the ncaa has been on the losing end of a number of lawsuits in which they thought their actions were justified.
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Exactly, which is why they basically blackmailed Penn St. into having to accept these penalties. The NCAA knew they had no legal right to do what they did today, yet saw an opportunity to execute a HUGE power grab due to the fact that the court of public opinion afforded PSU no recourse. Nothing like fighting morally corrupt behavior with additional morally corrupt behavior.
 
#287
#287
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Alright, so which student-athletes were harmed or hurt by the actions of the one's involved??
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PSU was wrong. JoePa was wrong.

Absolute power is a very dangerous thing - not one person at PSU had the guts to stand up to JoePa and do the right thing.

Why? Because Joe was this legend/icon/father figure - to most people he literally was Penn State and they would not go against what he said.

:mf_surrender:

I give up.
 
#288
#288
PowerSweep said:
Just because he says it doesn't mean they had the authority to do so...what the heck you expect him to say? the ncaa has been on the losing end of a number of lawsuits in which they thought their actions were justified.
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Why on God's green earth would he lie about that?

They were sat down, told they were getting the hammer and offered option B. They agreed to option B with a smile on their face.

Again, they (PSU), signed off on it. All of these students *****ing and moaning in shock need to get a clue. Their school agreed to it.

It's as close to the death penalty as you can get with the exception of a few things.

The NCAA doesn't really want to use it again, but I firmly believe they were about to pull the trigger had PSU not agreed to all that "option B" insisted on.

And lastly, yes I'll agree. PSU just became Marshall on a bigger stage.

"We were".
 
#289
#289
ajvol01 said:
PSU was wrong. JoePa was wrong.

Absolute power is a very dangerous thing - not one person at PSU had the guts to stand up to JoePa and do the right thing.

Why? Because Joe was this legend/icon/father figure - to most people he literally was Penn State and they would not go against what he said.

:mf_surrender:

I give up.
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After seeing the sanctions today, and the NCAA bending its laws to fit whatever they see fit, that's kind of an ironic statement.
 
#290
#290
ajvol01 said:
PSU was wrong. JoePa was wrong.

Absolute power is a very dangerous thing - not one person at PSU had the guts to stand up to JoePa and do the right thing.

Why? Because Joe was this legend/icon/father figure - to most people he literally was Penn State and they would not go against what he said.

:mf_surrender:

I give up.
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Yet you advocate the NCAA grossly and arbitrarily expanding it's own stated powers to levy sanctions against a school just to appease the voice of a mob that wants blood?
 
#291
#291
bleedorange0037 said:
Exactly, which is why they basically blackmailed Penn St. into having to accept these penalties. The NCAA knew they had no legal right to do what they did today, yet saw an opportunity to execute a HUGE power grab due to the fact that the court of public opinion afforded PSU no recourse. Nothing like fighting morally corrupt behavior with additional morally corrupt behavior.
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Don't sign the contract with them then. Authority is given by those who allow it. They chose to be governed.
 
#293
#293
g8terh8ter_eric said:
They were still having a better recruiting year that we currently are, and this was in the midst of all the allegations and the NCAA running it's mouth too. Seems like people trying to point out that they had some type of advantage in recruiting by covering it all up, is pretty much baseless based on this year's recruiting alone. Just admit it, people just want to see an institution punished for something that a few people conspired to keep quiet, even though the few involved, are either about to be behind bars, broke, humiliated, or dead. This isn't even remotely about football, its about people wanting to see justice in any way they can, no matter who it hurts that is innocent or not involved. People won't admit that though.
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Everything that happened there revolved around football. Rapes occured in the football facilities and everyone involved hand a hand in the football program. Just because it didn't happen on the field doesn't mean it has nothing to do with football. There is a reason the NCAA isn't imposing penalties on the Penn State tennis team, it had everything to do with the football program and it's administrators.
 
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#294
#294
TXA&M07 said:
Don't sign the contract with them then. Authority is given by those who allow it. They chose to be governed.
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There was at least one BOT member who disagreed.....I believe they commented that they were rolling over for the AA.

The Paterno family statement, while dodging their father's involvement, was very critical of PSU in this "agreement".
 
#295
#295
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Who would they play football against?? The NCAA is by in large, a monopoly.
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Ohhhh so you're getting it now. You want to complain about the agency in which you empower to govern you.

This sounds familiar.

Look, it's not perfect. I was screaming they really had no business in this and I was wrong. They do. My options were severe but more focused around "helping" others rather than torching those left that are innocent. They worked that in a bit too I think and for that I'm glad.

But the NCAA had to act and were within their rights to do so. They've been given the power. Willingly mind you. There's really nothing more to say.
 
#296
#296
TXA&M07 said:
Why on God's green earth would he lie about that?

They were sat down, told they were getting the hammer and offered option B. They agreed to option B with a smile on their face.

Again, they (PSU), signed off on it. All of these students *****ing and moaning in shock need to get a clue. Their school agreed to it.

It's as close to the death penalty as you can get with the exception of a few things.

The NCAA doesn't really want to use it again, but I firmly believe they were about to pull the trigger had PSU not agreed to all that "option B" insisted on.

And lastly, yes I'll agree. PSU just became Marshall on a bigger stage.

"We were".
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Too bad. If they were going to hand out sanctions, how can they possibly justify giving Penn State a lesser punishment for covering up the rape of multiple children than they gave SMU for paying recruits? It just makes them look like a bunch of p******. Once they chose to act, their hands should have been tied into having to lay out the most devastating sanctions in the NCAA's history. Their choices should have either been to stay out of the matter, or destroy PSU for good. Instead, they chose the middle ground and look like a laughingstock.
 
#297
#297
g8terh8ter_eric said:
After seeing the sanctions today, and the NCAA bending its laws to fit whatever they see fit, that's kind of an ironic statement.
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I don't ever recall an instance where "absolute power" required a permission slip.

You do realize that 20 college presidents unanimously signed off on the NCAA's punishment for PSU, right?

The NCAA was authorized in its decision-making by an executive committee made up of 20 university presidents or chancellors and three athletic directors, and a Division I board of directors made up of 22 presidents. (Many sit on both boards.)
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#298
#298
bleedorange1983 said:
Everything that happened there revolved around football. Rapes occured in the football facilities and everyone involved hand a hand in the football program. Just because it didn't happen on the field doesn't mean it has nothing to do with football. There is a reason the NCAA isn't imposing penalties on the Penn State tennis team, it had everything to do with the football program and it's administrators.
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Again, no one can point to any student-athlete being hurt or molested, so who is the NCAA helping to protect here?? It sure isn't PSU football players.
 
#300
#300
Slightly off topic as I watch video of the players walking out of the facilities, I continue to be amazed at how effective fake talking on a cell phone is in neutralizing the media.
 
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