The Oakland A's- MLB's ACTUAL AAA team

#201
#201
Hoch is pitching like a rookie an a below average team. Hmmmmm.

As for more dominant than Harden this is so easy, I'll even stay within the organization:

Justin Duchscherer.
 
#202
#202
volfanbill said:
Hoch is pitching like a rookie an a below average team. Hmmmmm.

As for more dominant than Harden this is so easy, I'll even stay within the organization:

Justin Duchscherer.
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Let's see Harden strikes our over 30% of the batters he faces which is insane for the majors and Duchscherer is having a nice little season but he's doesn't have dominating stuff like Harden does. Also harden's ERA for the last 30 days is 1.52.
 
#203
#203
duchsherer's worst season was last year, mainly because he was injured just about all season. Right now Duke has a better ERA, whip, innings pitched and has given up walks. He's easily more dominant than Harden.
 
#204
#204
VOLNBAMA said:
Let's see Harden strikes our over 30% of the batters he faces which is insane for the majors and Duchscherer is having a nice little season but he's doesn't have dominating stuff like Harden does. Also harden's ERA for the last 30 days is 1.52.
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That is a lie.
 
#206
#206
volfanbill said:
my math shows it to be 22.7% of the batters he faces (and that doesn't count those that get on with errors)

Duchsherer strikes out 18.7%
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I got roughly around 23% too. In ERA+ he is well above average but no where near the most dominant pitcher in baseball. Brandon Webb and Johan Santana laugh at Harden's ERA+.
 
#209
#209
vols kick balls said:
I got roughly around 23% too. In ERA+ he is well above average but no where near the most dominant pitcher in baseball. Brandon Webb and Johan Santana laugh at Harden's ERA+.
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I'm laughing at that statement because Harden has a lower ERA than both of them. ERA+ is not an offical statistic.
 
#211
#211
The same goes for Duch, this is the first season he's pitched like this. Harden has a better body of work.
 
#212
#212
VOLNBAMA said:
I'm laughing at that statement because Harden has a lower ERA than both of them. ERA+ is not an offical statistic.
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ERA+ is a great statistic. Not being "official" means absolutely nothing.

Harden Career ERA and ERA+ - 3.42 & 127
Webb Career ERA and ERA+ - 3.23 & 143
Santana Career ERA and ERA+ - 3.20 & 141

Two of those have been healthy and have thrown well over twice the innings that Harden have. Two throw more than 200 innings regularly (Harden has never done that and only came close once). Webb and Santana both have better WHIPs for their Career.
 
#213
#213
VOLNBAMA said:
The same goes for Duch, this is the first season he's pitched like this. Harden has a better body of work.
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If your going to only use seasonal statistics then why can't we use seasonal statistics for Duchscherer? Webb and Santana have been more dominant and healthy that Harden could ever think of being even though Harden played in the worlds best pitchers stadium.
 
#214
#214
vols kick balls said:
ERA+ is a great statistic. Not being "official" means absolutely nothing.

Harden Career ERA and ERA+ - 3.42 & 127
Webb Career ERA and ERA+ - 3.23 & 143
Santana Career ERA and ERA+ - 3.20 & 141

Two of those have been healthy and have thrown well over twice the innings that Harden have. Two throw more than 200 innings regularly (Harden has never done that and only came close once). Webb and Santana both have better WHIPs for their Career.
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MLB teams don't use that stat so i see no point in using it.
 
#215
#215
vols kick balls said:
If your going to only use seasonal statistics then why can't we use seasonal statistics for Duchscherer? Webb and Santana have been more dominant and healthy that Harden could ever think of being even though Harden played in the worlds best pitchers stadium.
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We can use seasonal statistics and Harden has been more dominant since coming of the DL.
 
#216
#216
VOLNBAMA said:
MLB teams don't use that stat so i see no point in using it.
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MLB teams, scouts and GMs most definitely use the statistic.

How do you explain the career WHIPs and normal ERAs? Saying Rich Harden is more dominant that Santana and Webb is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.
 
#217
#217
vols kick balls said:
For this year in only 13 games. Extremely small sample size. He is under 9 per 9 in his career.
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vols kick balls said:
If your going to only use seasonal statistics then why can't we use seasonal statistics for Duchscherer? Webb and Santana have been more dominant and healthy that Harden could ever think of being even though Harden played in the worlds best pitchers stadium.
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You contradicted yourself.
 
#219
#219
Well you said that 13 games is a small sample and that's been his season statistics, but then you say why can't we use seasonal statistics for JD. Just go back and read both statments.
 
#220
#220
VOLNBAMA said:
Well you said that 13 games is a small sample and that's been his season statistics, but then you say why can't we use seasonal statistics for JD. Just go back and read both statments.
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Duch is having a better year. But when I'm talking most dominant pitcher in baseball you can't use only 13 games. Those are two seperate arguments I was making.

Duch is having a better season than Harden.

Webb and Santana are more dominant that Harden.

I never used statistics to say Duch is the most dominant pitcher in baseball. Actually, show me where I said Duchscherer was even dominant.
 
#221
#221
and all i said was Duch was more dominant than Harden. This is not Duch's first good season, he's just been a lot like Harden and hampered with injuries throughout his career.

Who cares about strikeouts per nine when speaking of a dominant pitcher? A dominant pitcher, comes in, gives up very few hits, few runs and allows his team to win 1-0 and 2-1 ballgames and such. Harden has been the ace one time as an A and he spent most of that season injured. He belongs nowhere near the same breath as Webb, Santana, Beckett or Peavy.
 
#222
#222
volfanbill said:
and all i said was Duch was more dominant than Harden. This is not Duch's first good season, he's just been a lot like Harden and hampered with injuries throughout his career.

Who cares about strikeouts per nine when speaking of a dominant pitcher? A dominant pitcher, comes in, gives up very few hits, few runs and allows his team to win 1-0 and 2-1 ballgames and such. Harden has been the ace one time as an A and he spent most of that season injured. He belongs nowhere near the same breath as Webb, Santana, Beckett or Peavy.
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Because to be dominant you have to strike out batters. The dominance factor stat says so at least. To find out which pitcher is more dominant just do this (K% + GB%-BB%)
 
#223
#223
well i could care less about all that. Give me a pitcher that consistently wins ballgames because he always has a low ERA, doesn't let a lot of batters on base and can consistently pitch 7 innings or more. Harden isn't even averaging 6 innings a start this season. Not very dominant in my book, which is about where he is at for a career as well.
 
#224
#224
VOLNBAMA said:
Because to be dominant you have to strike out batters. The dominance factor stat says so at least. To find out which pitcher is more dominant just do this (K% + GB%-BB%)
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Wait. You are going to tell me that ERA+ doesn't matter because it's not an "official statistic" but you are going to come back with this? There are so many things wrong with that I don't know where to start. That doesn't use ERA, BAA,BABIP, WHIP, Opponents Slugging, Opponents OPS, etc.

But I will play your little game of BS statistics.
1. You do realize that Harden is an extreme flyball pitcher don't you? 41 GO/ 90 AO ratio puts Harden in a huge hole for your BS statistic already. Playing in Chicago will highlight this in the future as some of those deep fly balls will turn into more homeruns.

2. Using that Brandon Webb might be the most dominant pitcher of all time. He has a 198 GO/ 63 AO ratio.

3. Brandon Webb walks less batters than Harden does per 9 innings.

You might be able to twist a BS statistic into saying Harden is better than Webb, it would be damn hard, but (K% + GB%-BB%) isn't going to get it done.
 
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#225
#225
vols kick balls said:
1. You do realize that Harden is an extreme flyball pitcher don't you? 41 GO/ 90 AO ratio puts Harden in a huge hole for your BS statistic already. Playing in Chicago will highlight this in the future as some of those deep fly balls will turn into more homeruns.
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I was thinking about that last while working a marathon doubleheader. Harden will most likely start giving up A LOT more home runs at Wrigley. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

The one thing that could screw this up for the short term is the ability that pitchers have to come over to a different league and be really good for one season or so until the hitters adjust. It's just a baseball fact. And you can bet that if it happens here, BAMA will let us all know it. Of course, that still all hinges on the most important aspect of this trade: will Harden be able to get even 10 more starts in before his shoulder crumbles?
 
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