The Official “Regular Posters of the Basketball Forum” Thread

[cncchris33]

IIRC, when the TBA was being planned the initial cost was $25 million. It ended up being nearly twice that after the bottomless sinkhole was discovered, there was a structural design issue that had to be reworked (initially there was no center scoreboard… turned out the roof could not support one), and the original contractor went bankrupt). The municipalities (or Knox County) created an entertainment tax of about 18% to cover their share of the financing, and every 1,000x seat licenses sold raised another one million dollars. I think they targeted 10,000x licenses but came up a bit short. The state of TN kicked in $$$s plus the donors (primarily B. Ray Thompson… a coal mining tycoon) ponied up. I’m not 100% certain but BRT might have owned Sun Coal and it was headquartered in the building on Old Kingston Pike that WIVK radio bought in the 1990s.

The horrible collateral damage was that popular acts in the 1980s avoided Knoxville because of the 18% entertainment tax. Worked out great for JC, Chattanooga, Greensboro, etc. The entertainment tax wasn’t just on TBA events. It was on every facility in Knox County.

This sounds accurate.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Interesting, have wondered why Knoxville doesn't seem to get many shows relative to it's size.

They might have lowered or eliminated the 18% tax. But it pretty much put an immediate halt on popular acts coming through Knoxville in the late 1980s and early 1990s. I do remember Brooks and Dunn and a few other big country acts (Winona) in the TBA around 1994.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Is what White said about people in the same section and same row sitting next to each other being required to pay 2 very different amounts not true?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Is what White said about people in the same section and same row sitting next to each other being required to pay 2 very different amounts not true?

That’s what grandfathered and various employment agreements through the decades had created. White is using the various price points in the same areas as justification for wiping the slate clean and restructuring it all to generate more net revenue.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

That’s what grandfathered and various employment agreements through the decades had created. White is using the various price points in the same areas as justification for wiping the slate clean and restructuring it all to generate more net revenue.

I’d be curious to know what % of season tickets are from those grandfathered in, thus those who he views are “getting a deal”.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I’d be curious to know what % of season tickets are from those grandfathered in, thus those who he views are “getting a deal”.

There were 65,000 season tickets being sold just a few years back. The prime faculty seats on the west side that are still unavailable to be sold to higher bidders were assigned in the 1960s and 1970s and those professors and widows haven’t died off fast enough for the UTAD..

 

[bleedingTNorange]

There were 65,000 season tickets being sold just a few years back. The prime faculty seats on the west side that are still unavailable to be sold to higher bidders were assigned in the 1960s and 1970s and those professors and widows haven’t died off fast enough for the UTAD..

That doesn’t answer my question…not saying you have the answer just saying that doesn’t answer it. If 10% of the season tickets are grandfathered and 90% are people paying a higher price then obviously there’s people willing to pay that higher price and I get the line of thinking. If it’s 50/50 well then there’s a good chance you’re going to cost yourself some season ticket sales.

 

[golfballs]

How much was the donation? How much were tickets on top of your donation?

My understanding is that this new model would be cheaper to obtain tickets, is that not the case?

Not where I sit in Section S. They’re turning it into premium seating. Which ok, but im getting the cold boot if I don’t pony up. If I wanted tickets again it would be just whatever happens to open up just like if I were a first time donor, not someone whose been dedicated and given a lot of money over the years, especially while we’ve sucked. Pretty ******.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

That doesn’t answer my question…not saying you have the answer just saying that doesn’t answer it. If 10% of the season tickets are grandfathered and 90% are people paying a higher price then obviously there’s people willing to pay that higher price and I get the line of thinking. If it’s 50/50 well then there’s a good chance you’re going to cost yourself some season ticket sales.

It’s nowhere close to 50/50. But a lot of the best seats on the west side lower bowl are grandfathered or were part of employment agreements. It seems like when the north end zone was completed there were deals struck there as well, but the opportunity cost is far less significant.

 

[Lefteye]

. Just bring the students down. The effect that would have visually on TV and IMO with the players and potential recruits would be enormous. Jmo

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

. Just bring the students down. The effect that would have visually on TV and IMO with the players and potential recruits would be enormous. Jmo

A bunch of people court-side looking at their phones impresses recruits?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

A bunch of people court-side looking at their phones impresses recruits?

Probably more so than those falling asleep in their chairs and complaining about how loud the music is

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Probably more so than those falling asleep in their chairs and complaining about how loud the music is

And telling people in front of them to sit down.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Well according to VQ…

-over 50% of current season ticket holders make no donation

-majority of current season ticket costs will actually be going down, not up

-the thought is that it may eliminate some of the older “grandfathered” in crowd current not making donations and make way for a younger generation to those seats

 

[zjcvols]

Well according to VQ…

-over 50% of current season ticket holders make no donation

-majority of current season ticket costs will actually be going down, not up

-the thought is that it may eliminate some of the older “grandfathered” in crowd current not making donations and make way for a younger generation to those seats

Knowing Danny too, I guarantee he’s thinking about moving the student section.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Knowing Danny too, I guarantee he’s thinking about moving the student section.

I’d love that

 

[TrippieRedd]

Would love for them to move the student section to 120-122 (the lower sections)

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Well according to VQ…

-over 50% of current season ticket holders make no donation

-majority of current season ticket costs will actually be going down, not up

-the thought is that it may eliminate some of the older “grandfathered” in crowd current not making donations and make way for a younger generation to those seats

Grandfathered = long term deal, UT is reneging on their part. I don’t have a “lifetime” seat license in the TBA, but if I did and they took it back I’d be furious. They can never be trusted again going forward.

Changing the arrangement after the other side has fulfilled their obligation is dishonest.

UT is shooting themselves in the foot. They might generate some more funds in the mid-term for the athletic program to waste, but long term this won’t be good for the university. I would imagine that a lot of life insurance beneficiaries are being changed from UT to something else.

Danny White has zero concern for UT’s long run. He’d rather be the AD at Duke replacing his 71 year old father. He gets $8,000,000 if UT fires him. It’s yet another genius deal by UT administration redirecting millions to individuals instead of the athletic programs (Fulmer, Dooley, Kiffin’s dad ($1,000,000 “retention” bonus), Butch, Pruitt and staff (he will eventually be paid), Chaney, Fulmer again, Hamilton, Hart, John Currie, Kevin Steele ($900k for 2 weeks of work), Bruce’s million dollar parting gift. Nobody is watching the hen house. The bar keeps getting raised for the money grab by coaches and administrators.

 

[golfballs]

Well according to VQ…

-over 50% of current season ticket holders make no donation

-majority of current season ticket costs will actually be going down, not up

-the thought is that it may eliminate some of the older “grandfathered” in crowd current not making donations and make way for a younger generation to those seats

If over 50% make no donation then how could the majority of season ticket costs go down if they’re now required to pay?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Grandfathered = long term deal, UT is reneging on their part. I don’t have a “lifetime” seat license in the TBA, but if I did and they took it back I’d be furious. They can never be trusted again going forward.

Changing the arrangement after the other side has fulfilled their obligation is dishonest.

UT is shooting themselves in the foot. They might generate some more funds in the mid-term for the athletic program to waste, but long term this won’t be good for the university. I would imagine that a lot of life insurance beneficiaries are being changed from UT to something else.

Danny White has zero concern for UT’s long run. He’d rather be the AD at Duke replacing his 71 year old father. He gets $8,000,000 if UT fires him. It’s yet another genius deal by UT administration redirecting millions to individuals instead of the athletic programs (Fulmer, Dooley, Kiffin’s dad ($1,000,000 “retention” bonus), Butch, Pruitt and staff (he will eventually be paid), Chaney, Fulmer again, Hamilton, Hart, John Currie, Kevin Steele ($900k for 2 weeks of work), Bruce’s million dollar parting gift. Nobody is watching the hen house. The bar keeps getting raised for the money grab by coaches and administrators.

I get it, I would be upset too if I had a lifetime deal and it didn’t hold…but I’d also be upset if I was a new season ticket holder and I’m being required to turn in a sizable donation every year while the guy next to me has never had to. According to White and VQ and multiple other outlets they basically think they’re going to gain more new donors than losing of the older crowd who has those current deals in place…only time will tell, and if somehow they start winning it’ll be a moot point because numbers will grow regardless.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

If over 50% make no donation then how could the majority of season ticket costs go down if they’re now required to pay?

I think they’re saying in comparison to those who do make a donation…the cost will obviously go up for those who have been making no donation.

 

[cncchris33]

If over 50% make no donation then how could the majority of season ticket costs go down if they’re now required to pay?

This. The idea that Tennessee is going to somehow make less money on this venture to “improve fan experience” is extremely naive. This is a money grab, and yes, while tickets for the same seats may be slightly cheaper, you can guarantee that the underlying cost for the privilege to secure those same seats isn’t staying at $0.00.

 

[cncchris33]

I get it, I would be upset too if I had a lifetime deal and it didn’t hold…but I’d also be upset if I was a new season ticket holder and I’m being required to turn in a sizable donation every year while the guy next to me has never had to. According to White and VQ and multiple other outlets they basically think they’re going to gain more new donors than losing of the older crowd who has those current deals in place…only time will tell, and if somehow they start winning it’ll be a moot point because numbers will grow regardless.

1. That isn’t entirely true. A donation was made on the front end by that season ticket holder, or his/her parents.

2. It’s fine to be upset at that notion as a younger fan, but it isn’t the current ticket holder’s fault that Tennessee made a bad business decision 35 years ago that is coming back to bite them, now. At some point, rent was bound to come due. Tennessee should honor that commitment to its completion, and if they don’t, shame on them. And any fans that currently think they’re getting in on a good idea, you better think twice before believing Tennessee’s AD will ever be honest with you. Any guarantee you think you have, well…you’d do well to bookmark this event.

 

[cncchris33]

Knowing Danny too, I guarantee he’s thinking about moving the student section.

I’ll be floored if that happens. He’d give up way too much money to put students in the best seats in the house.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

This. The idea that Tennessee is going to somehow make less money on this venture to “improve fan experience” is extremely naive. This is a money grab, and yes, while tickets for the same seats may be slightly cheaper, you can guarantee that the underlying cost for the privilege to secure those same seats isn’t staying at $0.00.

The school makes more money by requiring donations for 100% of those season tickets, where as now approximately 50% of those season tickets get a donation…seems like pretty simple math to me?

For the older crowd paying no donation the price goes up, for the younger and more recent crowd the price goes down.