The Official 2nd Amendment Appreciation Thread

#10,052
#10,052
ACvol3 said:
Nope. Sounds like he could've been under the influence
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It’s stupid. And possibly under the influence. I’m a very cautious gun owner and have had an accidental shot fired. Thankfully no body was hurt. I’ll never go without a safety again. I understand if others disagree and that’s their choice. The most important thing is knowing the weapon you choose and knowing how to use it safely.
 
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#10,053
#10,053
Orangeslice13 said:
It’s stupid. And possibly under the influence. I’m a very cautious gun owner and have had an accidental shot fired. Thankfully no body was hurt. I’ll never go without a safety again. I understand if others disagree and that’s their choice. The most important thing is knowing the weapon you choose and knowing how to use it safely.
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I had one go off inside my truck one time, but it was with a .45 Springfield 1911 with 3 safeties and 100% my fault. Won’t ever happen again. Thankfully, I never point it at anything I don’t wanna shoot
 
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#10,054
#10,054
ACvol3 said:
I had one go off inside my truck one time, but it was with a .45 Springfield 1911 with 3 safeties and 100% my fault. Won’t ever happen again. Thankfully, I never point it at anything I don’t wanna shoot
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That’s exactly why gun safety is so important. If you’re in the habit of treating an unloaded gun as loaded then you’re much less likely to hurt yourself or someone else.
 
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#10,056
#10,056
Orangeslice13 said:
It’s stupid. And possibly under the influence. I’m a very cautious gun owner and have had an accidental shot fired. Thankfully no body was hurt. I’ll never go without a safety again. I understand if others disagree and that’s their choice. The most important thing is knowing the weapon you choose and knowing how to use it safely.
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I at least have to have a trigger safety. I probably would’ve bought the P365 instead of the hellcat if it had any kind of safety. No trigger safety or thumb safety although they do make one with a thumb safety.
 
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#10,057
#10,057
Orangeslice13 said:
You seen the video of the FBI agent that dropped his Glock on the dance floor and shot someone accidentally as he picked it up?
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That was simply from negligence. Safety or no someone should never pick up a gun with their finger inside the trigger guard.

If you are proficient, if you practice, and are safety minded (with firearms) you simply don’t “need” a safety (unless you carry a single action).

The “average” person does not need anything extra “to do” in that defensive situation. Same reason everyone should carry with a round in the chamber.

One can draw, point and shoot in 2 seconds (round about). One can draw, rack, point and shoot in 2.4 seconds (round about). Point 4 seconds could easily be death……in some situations.

I’m not saying safety’s are bad. I’m really saying proficiency is good……..but for the “average” person……..they don’t need the “extra” step……..they simply need to learn and to become confident and comfortable with carrying a loaded firearm.

Just my opinion.
 
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#10,058
#10,058
JoAllan said:
That was simply from negligence. Safety or no someone should never pick up a gun with their finger inside the trigger guard.

If you are proficient, if you practice, and are safety minded (with firearms) you simply don’t “need” a safety (unless you carry a single action).

The “average” person does not need anything extra “to do” in that defensive situation. Same reason everyone should carry with a round in the chamber.

One can draw, point and shoot in 2 seconds (round about). One can draw, rack, point and shoot in 2.4 seconds (round about). Point 4 seconds could easily be death……in some situations.

I’m not saying safety’s are bad. I’m really saying proficiency is good……..but for the “average” person……..they don’t need the “extra” step……..they simply need to learn and to become confident and comfortable with carrying a loaded firearm.

Just my opinion.
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The is zero difference in the time of draw and shoot with a Ruger security 9 that has a safety and anything that doesn’t.

I’ve had to dare and shoot a wild animal (coyote) that charged me in my front yard. It wasn’t a problem.
 
#10,059
#10,059
Orangeslice13 said:
The is zero difference in the time of draw and shoot with a Ruger security 9 that has a safety and anything that doesn’t.

I’ve had to dare and shoot a wild animal (coyote) that charged me in my front yard. It wasn’t a problem.
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As stated…..proficiency is the key.

Regular folk
Newer shooters
Non proficient folks
The “average” person……in no way needs an extra step in a life or death situation.

If that person doesn’t feel comfortable…….I suggest to practice and become comfortable.

You, and many folks like you have become proficient and your draw with disconnect becomes natural……..in no way would this be “natural” or “without thought” for the “average” person in a life or death situation.
 
#10,060
#10,060
JoAllan said:
As stated…..proficiency is the key.

Regular folk
Newer shooters
Non proficient folks
The “average” person……in no way needs an extra step in a life or death situation.

If that person doesn’t feel comfortable…….I suggest to practice and become comfortable.

You, and many folks like you have become proficient and your draw with disconnect becomes natural……..in no way would this be “natural” or “without thought” for the “average” person in a life or death situation.
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Then practice.
You’re arguing that people who don’t practice and rarely use a gun are better off without a safety?

An FBI agent drop his gun and shot someone. I’m pretty sure he’d qualify as proficient. A Kentucky state trooper shot his foot last year returning his firearm to its holster because he had a pen in his belt and it caught the trigger.

Again. People should do what the think is best. But accidents are less likely with the safety on.
 
#10,061
#10,061
JoAllan said:
As stated…..proficiency is the key.

Regular folk
Newer shooters
Non proficient folks
The “average” person……in no way needs an extra step in a life or death situation.

If that person doesn’t feel comfortable…….I suggest to practice and become comfortable.

You, and many folks like you have become proficient and your draw with disconnect becomes natural……..in no way would this be “natural” or “without thought” for the “average” person in a life or death situation.
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That's why you practice. I have took 2 ISF classes from a guy that's been in the ISF for 14 years, they preach practice taking off your safety while drawing. Anyone can practice with dry fire ammo, you can practice it in your bedroom, bathroom, anywhere.

Any gun owner average or other wise should be comfortable with their gun to take off a safety. If I didn't know my firearm well enough to undo the safety, I wouldn't trust it to save my life. That's not to demean a new firearm owner. Anyone that plans to carry a weapon to protect themselves, shouldn't solely rely on something they are not comfortable with.
 
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#10,062
#10,062
Orangeslice13 said:
Then practice.
You’re arguing that people who don’t practice and rarely use a gun are better off without a safety?

An FBI agent drop his gun and shot someone. I’m pretty sure he’d qualify as proficient. A Kentucky state trooper shot his foot last year returning his firearm to its holster because he had a pen in his belt and it caught the trigger.

Again. People should do what the think is best. But accidents are less likely with the safety on.
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Yes I am……for someone who is going to carry a gun for “life” protection……I certainly am.

I’m also advocating for practice, and to become proficient.

If everyone, always treats every firearm as if they are always loaded……there will be no accidental discharge……this is when knowledge and proficiency comes in.

I personally don’t think anyone should carry a firearm, unless they are knowledgeable, they have training, they practice, and they are comfortable………..and only then should folks carry a firearm.

I also firmly believe those “normal” folks should carry a firearm without a safety or treat the safety as if it’s not there. Most folks have not been in multiple…..or any life or death situations…….and the draw with disconnect could become a fog……in that situation.

If you or anyone is proficient with carrying a firearm with a safety on……that is cool with me………..however most normal folks need as little to do as possible, in life or death situations.
 
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#10,063
#10,063
Orangeslice13 said:
Then practice.
You’re arguing that people who don’t practice and rarely use a gun are better off without a safety?

An FBI agent drop his gun and shot someone. I’m pretty sure he’d qualify as proficient. A Kentucky state trooper shot his foot last year returning his firearm to its holster because he had a pen in his belt and it caught the trigger.

Again. People should do what the think is best. But accidents are less likely with the safety on.
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Guy at a gas station in town had one fall out of his holster. Shot into a drivers door of the car next to his.
 
#10,064
#10,064
C1500 said:
That's why you practice. I have took 2 ISF classes from a guy that's been in the ISF for 14 years, they preach practice taking off your safety while drawing. Anyone can practice with dry fire ammo, you can practice it in your bedroom, bathroom, anywhere.

Any gun owner average or other wise should be comfortable with their gun to take off a safety. If I didn't know my firearm well enough to undo the safety, I wouldn't trust it to save my life. That's not to demean a new firearm owner. Anyone that plans to carry a weapon to protect themselves, shouldn't solely rely on something they are not comfortable with.
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I totally agree……..I’ve pretty much stayed as much.

If the firearm is in a competent holster……..it’s not going off……with or without a safety.

If you can practice putting your safety on…….you can certainly practice……not pulling the trigger needlessly.

It takes way……..way more practice (and time) than the normal Joe blow will do before a draw and safety disconnect becomes so natural that they could “never” forget to do so in the most stressful situation of their entire life.

again, I’m advocating for knowledge, training and for safety. however in that one brief moment of extreme duress…..would everyone be clear headed? No they will not, and they need the fewest steps possible, to save their life or that of someone else.
 
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#10,067
#10,067
Are these drop discharges from people who carry old guns that don’t have internal safeties like transfer bar or two part firing pin? I did not think it was possible to do that with modern firearms. I’ve heard stories about Glocks being dropped out of helicopters and not discharging.
 
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#10,068
#10,068
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Are these drop discharges from people who carry old guns that don’t have internal safeties like transfer bar or two part firing pin? I did not think it was possible to do that with modern firearms. I’ve heard stories about Glocks being dropped out of helicopters and not discharging.
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I know Sig has had issues.
 
#10,069
#10,069
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Are these drop discharges from people who carry old guns that don’t have internal safeties like transfer bar or two part firing pin? I did not think it was possible to do that with modern firearms. I’ve heard stories about Glocks being dropped out of helicopters and not discharging.
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Nope.
People who accidentally pulled the trigger and not always with their fingers.
Picking it up after a drop, catching it as it falls or snagging it on something.
 
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#10,070
#10,070
C-south said:
I know Sig has had issues.
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if you're talking about the P320, there are definitely a lot of stories out there. without calling anyone a liar, my suspicion is that 99% of reported "critical failures" are in fact operator errors. the whole concept of modularity lends itself to people doing things to the internals that they are probably not qualified to do.
 
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#10,071
#10,071
Orangeslice13 said:
Nope.
People who accidentally pulled the trigger and not always with their fingers.
Picking it up after a drop, catching it as it falls or snagging it on something.
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I have seen that sort of thing in videos. Usually it's a person at a range who is already in condition zero and I am not sure that a thumb safety would help them. However, I agree with you that I'd rather have the thumb safety than not. The two subcompacts I currently own did not have one as an option when I bought those and I'll only carry those in a pocket or belt holster. As soon as I find the right holster and get a few more rounds down range, I plan to start carrying my compact 2011 with thumb safety and will probably sell the P365XL. I like Paul Harrell's videos but I always cringe when he reaches into his jacket pocket and pulls out a Glock that was seemingly stored loose.
 
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#10,075
#10,075
C-south said:
I at least have to have a trigger safety. I probably would’ve bought the P365 instead of the hellcat if it had any kind of safety. No trigger safety or thumb safety although they do make one with a thumb safety.
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I know you can get a p365 xl with a thumb safety. I assume you can get one on the regular 365 too
 
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