The Official Obama HealthCare Summit Thread

#77
#77
IPorange said:
What evidence is there that we can effectively smooth out these peaks and valleys?
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Where is there not evidence? The thirties/forties are an excellent example. Keynes's theories have been the most influential in macroeconomics.
 
#79
#79
bam15 said:
And you are blindly going off the assumption that Milton Friedman and Ronald Reagan is the reason for our economic success.
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it damn sure isn't due to Woodrow Wilson and John Maynard Keynes
 
#82
#82
bam15 said:
Where is there not evidence? The thirties/forties are an excellent example. Keynes's theories have been the most influential in macroeconomics.
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even the most socialist economic professors in this country (trust me i know being a econ grad at cal) aren't teaching keynes' theories as economic fact. so why are you? they are so overly simplistic it's ridiculous. the real world isn't this simple. you really need to take some game theory or chaos theory classes before you graduate.
 
#84
#84
It amazes me that leading up to this the GOP has warned that it is likely a poltiical stunt, but then they say that at the first opportunity to make a statement by doing so they are going to walk out.

I get the sense that the tide is turning. Obama and the Dems took some knocks for the way this all got handled, but now there seems to be this groundswell out there of, "Okay Republicans, we did what you asked and killed their plan, now what's yours?"
 
#85
#85
lawgator1 said:
I get the sense that the tide is turning. Obama and the Dems took some knocks for the way this all got handled, but now there seems to be this groundswell out there of, "Okay Republicans, we did what you asked and killed their plan, now what's yours?"
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Groundswell? Have you seen the latest poll numbers?
 
#86
#86
lawgator1 said:
It amazes me that leading up to this the GOP has warned that it is likely a poltiical stunt, but then they say that at the first opportunity to make a statement by doing so they are going to walk out.

I get the sense that the tide is turning. Obama and the Dems took some knocks for the way this all got handled, but now there seems to be this groundswell out there of, "Okay Republicans, we did what you asked and killed their plan, now what's yours?"
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I mean seriously, do they not have anything? It is ridiculous. There are plenty of options that conservatives could do to reduce healthcare costs but they offer nothing. I mean, take for example volinbham's suggestions in one of the other healthcare threads. Does the GOP not realize any of this? I just don't buy that. I'm sure they have someone whispering "consumer driven care" in their ear. They just choose to do nothing it seems. I'm just pained to be so completely disgruntled with both parties at the moment. Politics as usual.
 
#87
#87
Stopping the current abuse of the HealthCare system would be first. Stop with the $10 co-pays and make people pay when they go to the emergency room for a sore throat or tummy ache. Make people more responsible. I guarantee if more people had to pay out-of-pocket for their medical care, they wouldnt abuse it as much.

How did people get by before the co-pay and going to the doctor for every minor thing?

Go to the ER in your town and look at the folks in there that arent there for an emergency. Look at the ones in there just trying to get their 30 day fix of pain meds. Its pathetic! But because they will face probable lawsuits, the doctors are forced to treat them and then the cost is passed on to the honest people. Hence the rise in Health premiums and the cost of health insurance.
 
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#88
#88
CountVolcula said:
Stoping the current abuse of the HealthCare system would be first. Stop with the $10 co-pays and make people pay when they go to the emergency room for a sore throat or tummy ache. Make people more responsible. I guarantee if more people had to pay out-of-pocket for their medical care, they wouldnt abuse it as much.

How did people get by before the co-pay and going to the doctor for every minor thing?

Go to the ER in your town and look at the folks in there that arent there for an emergency. Look at the ones in there just trying to get their 30 day fix of pain meds. Its pathetic! But because they will face probable lawsuits, the doctors are forced to treat them and then the cost is passed on to the honest people. Hence the rise in Health premiums and the cost of health insurance.
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That's what I'm saying. A huge part of the problem is painfully obvious, yet we do nothing to address these costs - either party.
 
#89
#89
lawgator1 said:
It amazes me that leading up to this the GOP has warned that it is likely a poltiical stunt, but then they say that at the first opportunity to make a statement by doing so they are going to walk out.

I get the sense that the tide is turning. Obama and the Dems took some knocks for the way this all got handled, but now there seems to be this groundswell out there of, "Okay Republicans, we did what you asked and killed their plan, now what's yours?"
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you think the tide is turning against the republicans? :lolabove:
 
#90
#90
paul1454 said:
That's what I'm saying. A huge part of the problem is painfully obvious, yet we do nothing to address these costs - either party.
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Exactly! I'm not against reform. There is a problem

I just dont like the idea of the government controlling it.

The problem is neither side is willing to compromise and that is evident.

The real problem is with the existing government in Washington on both sides. They care nothing about what the common person thinks, unless it furthers their political agenda.
 
#91
#91
paul1454 said:
I mean seriously, do they not have anything? It is ridiculous. There are plenty of options that conservatives could do to reduce healthcare costs but they offer nothing. I mean, take for example volinbham's suggestions in one of the other healthcare threads. Does the GOP not realize any of this? I just don't buy that. I'm sure they have someone whispering "consumer driven care" in their ear. They just choose to do nothing it seems. I'm just pained to be so completely disgruntled with both parties at the moment. Politics as usual.
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But they did present a plan and pieces of potential plans.

It's not just do nothing. It is a fundamental disagreement with the underlying structure of the Dem bill.
 
#92
#92
according to obama if you don't want socialized healthcare you don't want reform. you can't argue with people who only believe in absolutes.
 
#93
#93
lawgator1 said:
It amazes me that leading up to this the GOP has warned that it is likely a poltiical stunt, but then they say that at the first opportunity to make a statement by doing so they are going to walk out.

I get the sense that the tide is turning. Obama and the Dems took some knocks for the way this all got handled, but now there seems to be this groundswell out there of, "Okay Republicans, we did what you asked and killed their plan, now what's yours?"
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Where do you come up with this stuff? I actually feel better about things since not one of your political analyses and predictions in the past has been correct. Therefore I can only assume the Republicans came out smelling like roses.
 
#94
#94
How is healtcare not a basic human right?? How if you have cancer, etc, do you not have a right to the best healthcare out there???

Oh well... progress is slow. Eventually it will happen, like it or not.
Took many years for black people to get rights, but eventually it got there (kind of. still working on it.)
Took many years for women to get the right to vote, but eventually it got there (not sure equal rights are there, yet).

Currently, it's taking many years for gay people to get rights.. Eventually, it will get there... It will be the same with healthcare, because some things are just painfully obvious of what a human right is.
 
#95
#95
thekicker33 said:
How is healtcare not a basic human right?? How if you have cancer, etc, do you not have a right to the best healthcare out there???

Oh well... progress is slow. Eventually it will happen, like it or not.
Took many years for black people to get rights, but eventually it got there (kind of. still working on it.)
Took many years for women to get the right to vote, but eventually it got there (not sure equal rights are there, yet).

Currently, it's taking many years for gay people to get rights.. Eventually, it will get there... It will be the same with healthcare, because some things are just painfully obvious of what a human right is.
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where do you think "rights" come from?

If healthcare is a basic human right, who is responsible for paying for it?
 
#96
#96
thekicker33 said:
How is healtcare not a basic human right?? How if you have cancer, etc, do you not have a right to the best healthcare out there???
s.
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nope. nor do i have a right to eat steak every night or to bang the hottest woman in america.
 
#98
#98
volinbham said:
where do you think "rights" come from?

If healthcare is a basic human right, who is responsible for paying for it?
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It is very much the "burden" (if you want to call it that) of the wealthy to take care of the under-priveleged. And don't call it unfair. It's so unfair I'll switch places with any CEO in this country with a high tax rate with anybody that doesn't have health insurance.
 
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