The Perfect Sorm: Coming 2012

[LawVol13]

Pathetic point. Someone that is elite is a cornerstone of a franchise not an NBA journeyman. Do you consider Renaldo Balkman elite?[/QUOTE

How is it a pathetic point? Is someone who is in the top 1% of what they do not elite? Any rational person can look at the top 1% of professionals in any given field and see that they are the elite. Am I to assume that basketball is just the exception?[/QUOTE]

This is getting too stupid to continue. If you think Renaldo Balkman is "elite", then go right ahead.

 

[Diceman]

Any analyst will tell you that Scottie Reynolds is an elite basketball player. The fact that hatvol has a crystall ball and can see that he will be the second coming of Dee Brown just doesn't weigh more than people who actually do this for a living in my opinion. If you agree with hatvol, more power to you.

 

[Diceman]

To clarify, I think everyone on an NBA roster is an elite basketball player.

 

[LawVol13]

Any analyst will tell you that Scottie Reynolds is an elite basketball player. The fact that hatvol has a crystall ball and can see that he will be the second coming of Dee Brown just doesn't weigh more than people who actually do this for a living in my opinion. If you agree with hatvol, more power to you.

No, they won't. Scottie Reynolds is a good college player. He doesn't have very much NBA potential at all. If he was so elite, he wouldn't be playing for Villanova right now as a senior.

 

[hatvol96]

Any analyst will tell you that Scottie Reynolds is an elite basketball player. The fact that hatvol has a crystall ball and can see that he will be the second coming of Dee Brown just doesn't weigh more than people who actually do this for a living in my opinion. If you agree with hatvol, more power to you.

The people who do it for a living will show you how elite they think Scottie Reynolds is when he's struggling to make a roster next fall.

 

[Diceman]

No, they won't. Scottie Reynolds is a good college player. He doesn't have very much NBA potential at all. If he was so elite, he wouldn't be playing for Villanova right now as a senior.

Just like Tim Duncan wasn't elite at Wake Forest. I don't even really care about Reynolds, just a name that popped into my head. I may be wrong about Reynolds, but I think most people consider all-conference players in the Big East elite. My point still stands that hatvol was wrong about elite players not playing as juniors, even if my example was poor.

 

[hatvol96]

Any analyst will tell you that Scottie Reynolds is an elite basketball player.

That's just flat not true. Listen to the discussions anytime talk turns to Reynolds' draft prospects. Nobody considers him an elite prospect.

 

[Diceman]

Elite college player does not equal elite NBA player. They both equal elite basketball players. You're splitting hairs.

 

[Diceman]

That's just flat not true. Listen to the discussions anytime talk turns to Reynolds' draft prospects. Nobody considers him an elite prospect.

You have my quote right above yours and you're still trying to twist my words. Elite BASKETBALL PLAYER. Where did I say elite prospect?

 

[hatvol96]

Just like Tim Duncan wasn't elite at Wake Forest. I don't even really care about Reynolds, just a name that popped into my head. I may be wrong about Reynolds, but I think most people consider all-conference players in the Big East elite. My point still stands that hatvol was wrong about elite players not playing as juniors, even if my example was poor.

Tim Duncan has been in the NBA for 13 plus years. Why not go back even further? I bet Bob Cousy played four years in college. Check the rosters for the NBA All Star game, guys who are actually elite. See how many of them played three years in college.

 

[Diceman]

I have stuff to take care of. Maybe I'll argue semantics with you two some other time.

 

[hatvol96]

Elite college player does not equal elite NBA player. They both equal elite basketball players. You're splitting hairs.

No, you're playing semantic games in an attempt to stay in a debate you've already disqualified yourself from. You think Darko and Hamed Haddadi are elite players. We get it. Everyone else here was talking about players who are actually elite and that was obvious.

 

[Diceman]

Ok, you continue to think that the top 1% of people in their profession are not elite. I take a different view. No amount of sarcastic wit changes the fact that people in the top 1% in highly skilled professions are elite.

 

[ranradVOL]

Danny G is one of the Knicks better players, although that's not saying much. His trade value is pretty high, not that the Knicks are shopping him... Dude is almost 7 feet and has a great looking shot from 3. There were much worse choices than him. Look at Thabeet. Going to the D league halfway thru his rookie year? That was a bad pick, esp with the surest thing (Tyreke Evans) in the draft already comfy in Memphis.

He still shouldn't have been a lottey pick.

 

[ranradVOL]

Pathetic point. Someone that is elite is a cornerstone of a franchise not an NBA journeyman. Do you consider Renaldo Balkman elite?[/QUOTE

How is it a pathetic point? Is someone who is in the top 1% of what they do not elite? Any rational person can look at the top 1% of professionals in any given field and see that they are the elite. Am I to assume that basketball is just the exception?

Great point Diceman.

 

[hatvol96]

Doug Roth and Vincent Yarbrough=Elite.
Ron Slay and Chris Lofton=Not elite.
Anyone who can sell that logic needs a job at a top 5 ad firm.

 

[ranradVOL]

There will always be exceptions.

You said elite players never see there JR year of college. Last year there were 14 Jr's or Sr's drafted in the first round alone.

Maybe you should apply at a car dealership if you can sell that BS.

 

[ranradVOL]

If guys like Ty Lawson, Darren Collison, Jordan Hill, and Earl Clark aren't "elite", then who is?

 

[LawVol13]

There will always be exceptions.

You said elite players never see there JR year of college. Last year there were 14 Jr's or Sr's drafted in the first round alone.

Maybe you should apply at a car dealership if you can sell that BS.

Again, "elite" refers to someone with the ability to become a cornerstone of a franchise. These are guys like John Wall, Kevin Durant, Carmello Anthony, etc. These type of guys never see their senior years.

I'm sure there are some juniors and seniors with good NBA potential, but very rarely anymore will they be "elite" as Hat and I are referring to.

 

[hatvol96]

There will always be exceptions.

You said elite players never see there JR year of college. Last year there were 14 Jr's or Sr's drafted in the first round alone.

Maybe you should apply at a car dealership if you can sell that BS.

In five years, see how many of those 14 are All Stars. Just because your standards of what constitutes elite are pathetically low doesn't mean everyone else's is. As I said earlier, run the average numbers of college seasons played by the guys on All Star rosters this year and see what you get.

 

[hatvol96]

If guys like Ty Lawson, Darren Collison, Jordan Hill, and Earl Clark aren't "elite", then who is?

Considering when Chris Paul gets healthy all of those guys will be benchwarmers, you can start with guys who actually log big minutes.

 

[ranradVOL]

Well, we must have a different take on the word elite. I consider a legit NBA starter elite.

 

[ranradVOL]

In five years, see how many of those 14 are All Stars. Just because your standards of what constitutes elite are pathetically low doesn't mean everyone else's is. As I said earlier, run the average numbers of college seasons played by the guys on All Star rosters this year and see what you get.

Are Brandon Roy and other guys not elite because they stayed in school longer?

That is simply stupid.

BTW Al Horford was an All Star this year.

 

[ranradVOL]

Is Horford elite Hat?

I'm curious as to how you'll twist this one.

 

[hatvol96]

Are Brandon Roy and other guys not elite because they stayed in school longer?

That is simply stupid.

BTW Al Horford was an All Star this year.

There are exceptions to any rule. If you want to beleive there are a bunch of future NBA stars hanging around for 3 years in college, keep thinking that.