The Red Line: Part Deux

[82_VOL_83]

And you trust Russia to hold up its end of the deal ? You're as naive as Barry and the rest of his minions....

Give BK a pat on the head and give them some lollipops and they are good to go. They are happy to let the rest of the world slide right on by.

 

[Gramps]

It is awfully suspicious it came together so quickly.

Yes it did.. Makes one think that Putin and Assad are playing the USA. At the same time there was really no use to at this time. It appeared the vote to strike was going to fail in a big way. A peaceful solution helps Obama much more than him failing to get congressional approval.

 

[Gannon Goodson]

@PKT

There is no point in discussing these issues from the perspective of what is the best policy approach when the other side's entire thesis is simply "Obama bad."

That's because he is bad. That thesis is easy to support.

 

[Gannon Goodson]

U.S., Russia agree to framework on Syria chemical weapons - CNN.com

Deal reached. And what is really intriguing is the notion that it may open the door to a long range discussion of trying to end the war.


Oh, and in before the same people who ten days ago were whining that we should not be using strikes and should use diplomacy, now whine we should be using strikes, not diplomacy.

Where? I haven't seen that, but many I missed those posts. There's a lot of material on this board.

 

[YorkVol]

And above that it says the agreement is subject to use of force.

Yet they won't put it writing.

 

[volmaverick]

 

[82_VOL_83]

Where? I haven't seen that, but many I missed those posts. There's a lot of material on this board.

Because there weren't any. The folks that were saying don't strike were saying stay the F out of Syria all together. Don't recall mention of diplomacy. Typical Bait and Switch by LG. Not saying there wasn't someone making diplomacy an option, just that it wasn't a vast majority of the "non-strikers".

Edit: Gramps had a diplomacy style suggestion.

 

[Velo Vol]

Peace for Our Time?

Is Assad even involved with this, or are the US and Russia simply cutting deals? Looks like we're really making him pay for gassing children.

At any rate, the bloodshed in Syria continues. This culture is really messed up.

Terrorists behead pro-gov't Syrians in front of children

 

[82_VOL_83]

Peace for Our Time?

Is Assad even involved with this, or are the US and Russia simply cutting deals? Looks like we're really making him pay for gassing children.

At any rate, the bloodshed in Syria continues. This culture is really messed up.

Terrorists behead pro-gov't Syrians in front of children

The entire ME is messed up.

 

[Gramps]

The entire ME is f'd up.

and has been for thousands of years

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Don't think it's wise to travel to Syria for tea if American.

 

[508mikey]

 

[508mikey]

 

[82_VOL_83]

Ignorance is the main reason :lolabove:

Yes, my ignorance leads to gassing entire populations just because they go to the Methodist Church instead of the Baptist Church. Your stupidity is astounding.

The entire ME is messed up and, as Gramps said, has been since Mohammed came down from the mount.

 

[Velo Vol]

I see on Twitter that the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria is also fighting the FSA, in addition to the government. Wonder how tightly controlled those weapons are that the CIA is dropping in?

 

[508mikey]

:zeitung_lesen:

 

[RollinVol]

I see on Twitter that the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria is also fighting the FSA, in addition to the government. Wonder how tightly controlled those weapons are that the CIA is dropping in?

Obama/Holder couldn't control the ones they let go to Mexico. I can only imagine what Obama/ Kerry will be able to do

 

[FullButchVol]

Wrong thread.

 

[Velo Vol]

I'm trying to figure out if Putin cares about Syria's WMD, or if the gambit is simply to prevent Assad from being attacked.

I had leaned heavily to the latter, but pundits keep saying it's in Russia's interest to do something about the chemical weapons, too.

They do have their own militant Muslim problem.

 

[TheDeeble]

I saw an article from a european newspaper saying one of the Saudi guys talked to Putin and made him an offer of back away from Assad and they can work an oil deal with Russia, or else Chechens they control in Syria will cause problems at the Sochi Olympics in Russia.

I'm sure there's far more to the US/Russian interests than chemical weapons. That's just an excuse to be involved.

 

[volinbham]

And above that it says the agreement is subject to use of force.

Russia and the United States will now work to get a U.N. Security Council resolution that will keep the process under review and allow the Council to consider the use of force if Syria fails to comply.
Syrian crisis: Keep up with key developments
Russia has veto power in the Security Council and would be unlikely to agree to using force. Other options include imposing sanctions.

"There are consequences should the Assad regime not comply with the framework agreed today. And, if diplomacy fails, the United States remains prepared to act."

Back to square one on the use of force. UN won't authorize and we "might" do it depending on how decisive the POTUS feels. Highly doubtful Congress will authorize it.

Also, what if inspectors are there by December instead of November? January? Saddam drug it out for years all while violating the no fly zone on a daily basis and nothing happened.

Subject to the use of farce is more like it.

 

[volinbham]

I'm trying to figure out if Putin cares about Syria's WMD, or if the gambit is simply to prevent Assad from being attacked.

I had leaned heavily to the latter, but pundits keep saying it's in Russia's interest to do something about the chemical weapons, too.

They do have their own militant Muslim problem.

Hard to say. I do think the immediate tactic is step into a leadership vacuum to reassert Russian influence.

The tricky thing is that if you want the most guaranteed control of Syria's CW; you fight for Assad to win. He's not distributing them. If Assad loses or is losing then he's more likely to lose grip on them.

 

[AirVol]

I'm trying to figure out if Putin cares about Syria's WMD, or if the gambit is simply to prevent Assad from being attacked.

I had leaned heavily to the latter, but pundits keep saying it's in Russia's interest to do something about the chemical weapons, too.

They do have their own militant Muslim problem.

Easy answer, Putin is thinking if Obozo can get a Nobel Peace prize, then I can. Plus Putin is making Obozo look like the clown he is.

 

[utvolpj]

I saw an article from a european newspaper saying one of the Saudi guys talked to Putin and made him an offer of back away from Assad and they can work an oil deal with Russia, or else Chechens they control in Syria will cause problems at the Sochi Olympics in Russia.

I'm sure there's far more to the US/Russian interests than chemical weapons. That's just an excuse to be involved.

Russia's economy is all about oil/NG and Syria is an important part of that. Any threat to remove Assad and replace him with a Western/Saudi puppet threatens that. If SA is making deals to allow the flow to continue then I can see that being attractive to Putin. That would also allow the CW's to be secured if Assad is removed and out of rebel hands which is a much larger threat to Russia than anyone else

I don't think US threats did much except call Russia's hand and force them to show how far they were willing to go with Syria. Once it was determined they were absolutely serious, a gaffe by Kerry gave them an opportunity to negotiate.

 

[Gramps]

Russia's economy is all about oil/NG and Syria is an important part of that. Any threat to remove Assad and replace him with a Western/Saudi puppet threatens that. If SA is making deals to allow the flow to continue then I can see that being attractive to Putin. That would also allow the CW's to be secured if Assad is removed and out of rebel hands which is a much larger threat to Russia than anyone else

I don't think US threats did much except call Russia's hand and force them to show how far they were willing to go with Syria. Once it was determined they were absolutely serious, a gaffe by Kerry gave them an opportunity to negotiate.

If your assumptions are correct then that gaffe was a good thing.