The shut down thread

#3,076
#3,076
BowlBrother85 said:
That is rich coming from the party of Trump... what exactly has Trump offered the Dems to get his wall? This "kick the can down the road for 3 years" on DACA isn't going to cut it. There will have to be more.
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DACA continuance is a compromise. Of course, Trump could play the same game the Dims have been playing ... reopen the government and we'll consider doing something and then not do anything. Trump apparently decided two can play that game.
 
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#3,077
#3,077
AM64 said:
And if the government had any balls or brains, it wouldn't provide back pay to anyone who refused to work during the shutdown. I generally agree with you, but not on this one. Where are the public service unions and their war chests? If this were a strike, they and affiliates would be throwing money at the strikers, so why not help them out in hard times?
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This shut down would have been over in 48 hours if all of the airports were shut down because of no TSA agents working.
 
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#3,078
#3,078
AM64 said:
DACA continuance is a compromise. Of course, Trump could play the same game the Dims have been playing ... reopen the government and we'll consider doing something and then not do anything. Trump apparently decided two can play that game.
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No, it's not because Trump is the one who ended the DACA program in the first place! That's not a compromise. That's just putting us back to where we were in September of 2017. There has to be something more... a pathway to citizenship? Something. This won't cut it and it can not be sold as anything resembling a compromise. It's just kicking the can down the road... Trump owns this shut down (per his own words), so he has no leverage here. If he wants the wall, he needs to sweeten the pot.
 
#3,079
#3,079
BowlBrother85 said:
No, it's not because Trump is the one who ended the DACA program in the first place! That's not a compromise. That's just putting us back to where we were in September of 2017. There has to be something more... a pathway to citizenship? Something. This won't cut it and it can not be sold as anything resembling a compromise. It's just kicking the can down the road... Trump owns this shut down (per his own words), so he has no leverage here. If he wants the wall, he needs to sweeten the pot.
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God, you are ignorant. "Pathway to citizenship?"....... wow
 
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#3,083
#3,083
One rather significant irony I have not seen mentioned is that Trump has frequently railed against the Congress and prior administrations for temporary fixes that did not represent comprehensive immigration reform.

So he has offered a temporary fix of his own.
 
#3,086
#3,086
BowlBrother85 said:
Not sure what you mean by that Titty TownVol and don't really care... (Glad to see you again, though). There is no consensus on what a pathway to citizenship should look like for DACA recipients.
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Even for dreamers that has been here for 15 years and haven’t done a damn thing to gain citizenship?
 
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#3,087
#3,087
AM64 said:
DACA continuance is a compromise. Of course, Trump could play the same game the Dims have been playing ... reopen the government and we'll consider doing something and then not do anything. Trump apparently decided two can play that game.
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They have the cards he doesn’t. They control the purse strings. He could try the emergency approach but will be tied up in litigation far after his first term ends. If he doesn’t win re-election it will be blown up. He said he would own the shutdown so he should own it. The Dems won’t make it easy for political point purposes. He needs to make them think they won. Negotiations don’t work unless both sides walk away feeling like they stuck it to the other side a bit.
 
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#3,088
#3,088
T-TownVol said:
They deserve no "special " path. The path has been established for a while.
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I disagree... Their circumstances are much different than the typical immigrant. They are already fully assimilated. According to the Pentagon, an estimated 900 DACA recipients currently serve in the United States military. At the very least, those 900 should be granted amnesty... you don't seem to understand how a negotiation works. It involves give and take... Trump has not offered anything.
 
#3,089
#3,089
37L1 said:
In your alternative universe. Neither side looks blameless for this fiasco.
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Most people blame Trump. Maybe Ann Coulter and some other right wing media personalities deserve some of the blame as well, since a deal was pretty much agreed on before they hurt Trump’s feelings.
 
#3,093
#3,093
lawgator1 said:
One rather significant irony I have not seen mentioned is that Trump has frequently railed against the Congress and prior administrations for temporary fixes that did not represent comprehensive immigration reform.

So he has offered a temporary fix of his own.
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Oh snap!

I wonder if Schumer and Pelosi ever supported border barriers and in fact argued for them but now are adamantly against them --- nah, no way that happened.
 
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#3,094
#3,094
volinbham said:
Oh snap!

I wonder if Schumer and Pelosi ever supported border barriers and in fact argued for them but now are adamantly against them --- nah, no way that happened.
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Trump has handled this poorly. He waited to make this mandate for a wall until he had no leverage at all. Now, he will have to offer something to get the Dems to budge... and he hasn't done anything yet. Politically speaking, Chuck and Nancy have nothing to lose by kicking back and letting Trump choke himself with this shut down. He will have to sweeten the pot.
 
#3,095
#3,095
BowlBrother85 said:
Trump has handled this poorly. He waited to make this mandate for a wall until he had no leverage at all. Now, he will have to offer something to get the Dems to budge... and he hasn't done anything yet. Politically speaking, Chuck and Nancy have nothing to lose by kicking back and letting Trump choke himself with this shut down. He will have to sweeten the pot.
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I beg to differ. Trump is commander in chief - you know at the top of the military chain of command. Nancy wants to fly as a VIP on military planes. Trump controls the frequent flyer program, and congressional critters do like their perks ... second only to being able to grandstand in front of a camera.

Now perhaps I have it all wrong, but it seems like congress does legislation and provides funding, and the administrative branch is the branch that actually makes things happen. That makes this the proverbial thing about leading a horse to water but not being able to make him drink. I think if Trump really wanted to play with hearts and minds, he'd start an investigation into congressional campaign funding, lobbyists, and lack of congressional recusals from legislation affecting businesses and individuals from which they have received compensation because the whole process sure looks like a system of bribes and paybacks.
 
#3,096
#3,096
volinbham said:
Oh snap!

I wonder if Schumer and Pelosi ever supported border barriers and in fact argued for them but now are adamantly against them --- nah, no way that happened.
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They aren't. They have said ok as recently as 6 months ago. So did Trump, as part of permanent DACA deal.

But then Trump backed out.
 
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#3,098
#3,098
lawgator1 said:
They aren't. They have said ok as recently as 6 months ago. So did Trump, as part of permanent DACA deal.

But then Trump backed out.
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Exactly. He doesn't understand the concept of compromise. He only sees deal-making in zero sum game terms. Meaning, his gain should be the equivalent of the other side's loss, so the net change in benefit is zero. That is not how a compromise works, where both sides equally gain something they covet.
 
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