The sissification and emasculation of the American male

#251
#251
ClearwaterVol said:
The fact that you believe that whacking a child should be part of a disciplinary program is indicative of a lack of creativity on your part. There are so many better ways to discipline or encourage good behavior.

When the discipline arm is needed - you’ve already failed as a parent. The motivation should be a positive reinforcement not avoidance of corporal punishment. My daughter and I are very close. We would come up with things she wanted and we put together a game plan for her to exhibit certain behaviors or reach certain goals which allowed her to earn her wants.

When I had to get negative, I would find her prized possession and take it away. One year it was a pair of jeans, other times it was her makeup, others it was a cell phone. If I had offered her the choice between being spanked and losing the item de jour. she’d have taken a whooping.
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I think most corporal punishment is mainly directed at boys…. Girls are extremely easy to raise…. All you have to do is have a strong relationship and you are golden…. I was raised with all the options you mentioned and if it had no effect or I was really bad(kicked off the school bus)….. it went to the level of getting a spanking from bad…. The waiting till dad got home to whip me was the worse feeling in the world.
 
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#252
#252
Weezer said:
When I got a spanking, I was positive I didn't plan on getting caught doing whatever I was doing to get the spanking again.


I'm guessing you had a tough childhood yourself that made you vow "never to hit your children". And if you were able to raise your child that way, good for you. Not all kids respond to more passive punishments. Spankings work for those that don't. Some kids need that physical stimulus. It should never crossover to abuse, but spankings work.

Whatever your reasons for the holier-than-thou posts, the passive aggressive suggesting that spankers are somehow bad parents is wrong IMO. Different strokes for different folks.
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I didn't have a tough childhood. I grew up pretty damn privileged. Tennis courts and stables kind of privileged.

I think spanking is effective when kids are especially small and cannot understand other punishments or rewards. I also believe that too often as kids are older is utilized by frustrated parents and crosses over into abuse.

As far as I am concerned, spanking was something I endured. Occasionally, I would be left with welts, but I would not say that I was abused especially in light of the time period. However, spanking was wholly ineffective as a form of discipline on me. I simply didn't care and I have a high pain threshold. My father simply wasn't going to make a significant impression with any form of spanking short of abuse. Though it took him years to figure out, I responded better to reasoning, grounding and positive reinforcement. If I knew a spanking was the punishment for staying out late as a kid. I would understand the tradeoff and take it.

When raising my daughter, I just decided that I would try the other approaches instead of spanking.
 
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#254
#254
volbeast33 said:
I think most corporal punishment is mainly directed at boys…. Girls are extremely easy to raise…. All you have to do is have a strong relationship and you are golden…. I was raised with all the options you mentioned and if it had no effect or I was really bad(kicked off the school bus)….. it went to the level of getting a spanking from bad…. The waiting till dad got home to whip me was the worse feeling in the world.
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See, I think raising boys would be easier. Never raised one, but after being raised and raising a daughter it is just what I would think. However, it could be that it is because my daughter having not really had a female role model in the house takes after me. And yes, that is a horrible thing. She's a fiery independent young woman who has a mouth like a sailor at times. It's like arguing with myself.
 
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#255
#255
ClearwaterVol said:
The fact that you believe that whacking a child should be part of a disciplinary program is indicative of a lack of creativity on your part. There are so many better ways to discipline or encourage good behavior.

When the discipline arm is needed - you’ve already failed as a parent. The motivation should be a positive reinforcement not avoidance of corporal punishment. My daughter and I are very close. We would come up with things she wanted and we put together a game plan for her to exhibit certain behaviors or reach certain goals which allowed her to earn her wants.

When I had to get negative, I would find her prized possession and take it away. One year it was a pair of jeans, other times it was her makeup, others it was a cell phone. If I had offered her the choice between being spanked and losing the item de jour. she’d have taken a whooping.
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24 Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.

For the record, I only spanked my 20 year old maybe 3 times as a child. Nowhere have I indicateed I used it, or believe it to be, a go to method. Only that it sometimes may be necessary, as I also sometimes earned it myself. He does not smoke, drink, curse, womanize, partake in any illegal, unethical, or questionable behavior. Values the health of his body. He is very strong minded. Very independent. Handles his own quest thru college. Refuses to ask us to help. Very respectful of others. Mild mannered. Knows he's a man, looks like one, and acts like one. Parenting is not a one method success.

The fact you infer I lacked creativity in my child rearing based on the fact I did use corporal punishment if necessary shows ignorance and bias on your part.
 
#256
#256
ClearwaterVol said:
See, I think raising boys would be easier. Never raised one, but after being raised and raising a daughter it is just what I would think. However, it could be that it is because my daughter having not really had a female role model in the house takes after me. And yes, that is a horrible thing. She's a fiery independent young woman who has a mouth like a sailor at times. It's like arguing with myself.
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Saves us all from having to explain what that is like. lol.
 
#258
#258
ClearwaterVol said:
See, I think raising boys would be easier. Never raised one, but after being raised and raising a daughter it is just what I would think. However, it could be that it is because my daughter having not really had a female role model in the house takes after me. And yes, that is a horrible thing. She's a fiery independent young woman who has a mouth like a sailor at times. It's like arguing with myself.
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Boys are much easier to raise than girls. All girls lose their minds at some point between 14 and 18.
 
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#259
#259
ClearwaterVol said:
I didn't have a tough childhood. I grew up pretty damn privileged. Tennis courts and stables kind of privileged.

I think spanking is effective when kids are especially small and cannot understand other punishments or rewards. I also believe that too often as kids are older is utilized by frustrated parents and crosses over into abuse.

As far as I am concerned, spanking was something I endured. Occasionally, I would be left with welts, but I would not say that I was abused especially in light of the time period. However, spanking was wholly ineffective as a form of discipline on me. I simply didn't care and I have a high pain threshold. My father simply wasn't going to make a significant impression with any form of spanking short of abuse. Though it took him years to figure out, I responded better to reasoning, grounding and positive reinforcement. If I knew a spanking was the punishment for staying out late as a kid. I would understand the tradeoff and take it.

When raising my daughter, I just decided that I would try the other approaches instead of spanking.
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So, it wasn't effective on you. Which means those of us that did spank did it wrong and weren't creative. That's a bit narrow minded. I don't think any of us indicated we spanked a 15 year old, 180 pound child.
 
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#260
#260
Blue collar guy. Got spanked / whipped a few times growing up. Just made me tougher but taught me respect.
By the time I was 12 I had a job. Not a newspaper boy or lawn boy. A job with a time clock and a boss. Paying my way though life , buying my own clothes.
Yeah no privilege here. At 15 I left home and never returned. Hit the road and traveled the country working construction etc. By 18 I was back in Knoxville.
Got married and landed a couple of good jobs finally sticking with one for 38 years.
At 27 we had our first son, 3 years later #2 came along. I probably spanked those boys 5/6 times till they were around 8.
Both of my men are grown, never been in trouble. Both have great jobs and great income. Beautiful wives and long marriages. Three wonderful smart granddaughters.
Spankings didn't ruin me or the boys.
We can definitely take care of our own.

Lastly neither myself or my sons have ever touched a woman in anger.
 
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#261
#261
GVF said:
24 Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.

For the record, I only spanked my 20 year old maybe 3 times as a child. Nowhere have I indicateed I used it, or believe it to be, a go to method. Only that it sometimes may be necessary, as I also sometimes earned it myself. He does not smoke, drink, curse, womanize, partake in any illegal, unethical, or questionable behavior. Values the health of his body. He is very strong minded. Very independent. Handles his own quest thru college. Refuses to ask us to help. Very respectful of others. Mild mannered. Knows he's a man, looks like one, and acts like one. Parenting is not a one method success.

The fact you infer I lacked creativity in my child rearing based on the fact I did use corporal punishment if necessary shows ignorance and bias on your part.
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Sounds like you raised him right.
 
#262
#262
Jxn Vol said:
I agree. That’s all I was saying yesterday. Maybe in the future try to be less condescending and you may not come across as a great big a** hole.
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The dispute arose when people were trying to say spanking was not hitting. It is.

I will give an effort to do as you request. My writing is direct and brief. It lends itself to being interpreted with a certain tone which is not always intended.
 
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#263
#263
ClearwaterVol said:
See, I think raising boys would be easier. Never raised one, but after being raised and raising a daughter it is just what I would think. However, it could be that it is because my daughter having not really had a female role model in the house takes after me. And yes, that is a horrible thing. She's a fiery independent young woman who has a mouth like a sailor at times. It's like arguing with myself.
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I have raised 2 boys and 2 daughters….. Boys are definitely harder…. Daughters don’t get hard to raise until they become teenagers and you worry about them all the time.
 
#265
#265
GoDucks349 said:
I new a woman years back that use to say "if you want an insecure man who's compensating for some short coming just find a man with a big truck and a gun"
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I knew a man years back who used to say "if you want an insecure woman who's compensating for her insecurity, just find a woman because insecure, illogical, and border-line crazy women are literally everywhere".
 
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#266
#266
ClearwaterVol said:
The dispute arose when people were trying to say spanking was not hitting. It is.

I will give an effort to do as you request. My writing is direct and brief. It lends itself to being interpreted with a certain tone which is not always intended.
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If you meet an a**hole in the morning, you met an *******. If you meet a**holes all day, you’re the *******.
 
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#268
#268
ClearwaterVol said:
Sounds like you raised him right.
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My wife's second. My only. Only had one shot. He's not perfect. All that comes with some horn locking. And the jury is still out on how much of that raising was his own doing. He self manages to the point to make a parent very proud, but if you question too much, especially about school and grades the head butting comes out. And like any young adult, he knows more than me, and that brings out the horns too. But, given alternatives, I'll gladly take what and who he is.
 
#274
#274
hog88 said:
Sounds like a dumb woman.
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I'm quite sure that most of the world's major problems are created by men. Why is the Mideast and Islamic countries so backward--lack of education and patriarchal cultures that have long viewed women as third-class citizens to be ordered around by men. Who commits 90 percent of the crime everywhere? It ain't women. It's telling that more than 70 countries have been led by a woman at one point or another. And yet America isn't one of them, partly because there are a lot of people in America who are frightened by smart, independent women and therefore pathetically try to demonize them. Look at the hate heaped on Clinton and Harris--irrational and embarrassing. The political right in America very aggressively tries to bring down high-profile women in the Democratic Party.
 
#275
#275
turbovol said:
I'm quite sure that most of the world's major problems are created by men. Why is the Mideast and Islamic countries so backward--lack of education and patriarchal cultures that have long viewed women as third-class citizens to be ordered around by men. Who commits 90 percent of the crime everywhere? It ain't women. It's telling that more than 70 countries have been led by a woman at one point or another. And yet America isn't one of them, partly because there are a lot of people in America who are frightened by smart, independent women and therefore pathetically try to demonize them. Look at the hate heaped on Clinton and Harris--irrational and embarrassing. The political right in America very aggressively tries to bring down high-profile women in the Democratic Party.
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Have you witnessed the press conferences, interviews, and overall job performance of the highest ranking woman in the democrat party, the VP?


No one has to tear her down brother. She is completely inept and her own party recognizes it.
 
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