The sissification and emasculation of the American male

#201
#201
ClearwaterVol said:
Striking is hitting is spanking. Result is the result.

Maybe if the inner city parents were merely present in their children's lives you'd see better results in the inner city. 95% of being a good parent is just showing up.

Your last comment is just ignorant and unrelated.
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Go spank Dink. Y’all both may like it
 
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#206
#206
I think we are getting a tad off point here. Back to the main topic.

What makes a man "manly" or masculine. People have put forth a lot of things on this thread and how society has seen it has changed a lot over the most recent years especially.

To me, the central focus of a man is to be strong, whereas for a woman it is to be beautiful. That is not to say physical strength or physical beauty only. It is an approach you take with you into any situation, men bringing strength and women to beautify (improve).

As a family, the man's purpose is to protect/provide and the woman's is to nurture.

Providing protective strength and nurturing beauty - that is the masculine and the feminine IMO. It is how our biology has wired us (and with good reason).
 
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#208
#208
Gandalf said:
I think we are getting a tad off point here. Back to the main topic.

What makes a man "manly" or masculine. People have put forth a lot of things on this thread and how society has seen it has changed a lot over the most recent years especially.

To me, the central focus of a man is to be strong, whereas for a woman it is to be beautiful. That is not to say physical strength or physical beauty only. It is an approach you take with you into any situation, men bringing strength and women to beautify (improve).

As a family, the man's purpose is to protect and the woman's is to nurture.

Protective strength and nurturing beauty - that is the masculine and the feminine IMO. It is how our biology has wired us (and with good reason).
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When a group of folks have gender confusion then things get off track. Can’t imagine why there is a problem.

The King of beers is now the Queen of beers.
 
#209
#209
Gandalf said:
I think we are getting a tad off point here. Back to the main topic.

What makes a man "manly" or masculine. People have put forth a lot of things on this thread and how society has seen it has changed a lot over the most recent years especially.

To me, the central focus of a man is to be strong, whereas for a woman it is to be beautiful. That is not to say physical strength or physical beauty only. It is an approach you take with you into any situation, men bringing strength and women to beautify (improve).

As a family, the man's purpose is to protect/provide and the woman's is to nurture.

Providing protective strength and nurturing beauty - that is the masculine and the feminine IMO. It is how our biology has wired us (and with good reason).
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Male resolve and female empathy.

I think we've evolved past beating the **** out of each other for the prettiest mate in the cave :cool:
 
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#214
#214
Gandalf said:
I think we are getting a tad off point here. Back to the main topic.

What makes a man "manly" or masculine. People have put forth a lot of things on this thread and how society has seen it has changed a lot over the most recent years especially.

To me, the central focus of a man is to be strong, whereas for a woman it is to be beautiful. That is not to say physical strength or physical beauty only. It is an approach you take with you into any situation, men bringing strength and women to beautify (improve).

As a family, the man's purpose is to protect/provide and the woman's is to nurture.

Providing protective strength and nurturing beauty - that is the masculine and the feminine IMO. It is how our biology has wired us (and with good reason).
Click to expand...

I think we let the things that make men different from women define too much of what masculinity means. Being a provider isn't something that differentiates men from women. Women can provide just as well as men. But culturally, we see provider as more of the role of the man. Being useful around the house is something women can do as well as men, but it's more of a masculine thing because that's how we view it culturally. I don't think men are braver than women. I don't think men are stronger than women in any other sense than physically. Conversely, the man can bring as much love to the home as the woman.

I think masculinity and feminity are much more fluid than people think they are. Somebody was saying something about limp-wristed men making him ill...well, the ability to demonstrate as strong and/or fight is only a small part of being a man in today's world. You can survive just fine without it.
 
#216
#216
LouderVol said:
I do wish this country had a list of qualifications to be considered an adult. A right of passage. Make it a list of like 10 things, and you have to do 7 of them or something. maybe the minimum number required changes based on age, starting at 16.

1. work in the service/customer service industry with direct interaction with the public. For some set time, month minimum
2. get in a real fight, observed or maybe administered by the government.
3. Go a month with only 1 meal a day, certain number of calories, and only water to drink.
4. Go a month without technology.
5. work on a farm/food production, the actual production side of it. for some set time, month minimum
6. work as a volunteer at a hospital/retirement home/orphanage/animal shelter, for some set time, month minimum.
7. work as a volunteer helping clean up or deal with a natural disasters, or work as a repair person in a state/national park, for some set time.
8. work pretty much any "Dirty Jobs" for a month
9. go through some "life classes", like learning to cook, clean, do taxes, learn at least one "handy" skill, grow your own food.
10. be forced to live a couple months on a set budget in a government operated facility.
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My parents kinda took care of that list. Working a job during school terms was optional, as they did want us to be able to get our school work done. But, we were expected to work summer jobs for spending money and experience. We also had chores. Things I knew how to do before I even had pubies:

1. Cook (was cooking from a step stool to reach stove)
2. Separate, Wash, Dry, and fold clothes.
3. Iron my clothes
4. Keep room cleaned and bed made.
5. After dinner kitchen duty.
6. Mowing, gardening, harvesting, etc.
7. giving time to others

And later on...helping re-roof the house, learning to care for my care, helping rebuild an engine, etc, etc. I took the auto shop class, wood working class, metal working class electives in HS. Did it teach me to make a living at those things. No. But, some did. But, I knew how to do plenty of basics people waste money on and I haven't blown hundreds on brakes and oil changes or home owner basic upkeeps in decades. My dad would never pay someone to do something he could figure out. Just started a kitchen remodel at 57. Sanding the floors now. Will install cabinets myself, and move the electrical where it needs to be. Will be completing probably a $10K+ job for likely less than $4K.

My kid is only 20 and learning. He can cook pretty good. Not so dedicated to his room and upstairs area, but he has begun to spend more effort on that stuff. He has an interest in gardening certain things. He just re-gripped his own golf clubs. I wasn't as regimented as my parents, even though I have zero regrets or complaints, but he is fiercely independent and capable. He has asked for $0 for college, and is a soph.
 
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#218
#218
ClearwaterVol said:
Striking is hitting is spanking. Result is the result.

Maybe if the inner city parents were merely present in their children's lives you'd see better results in the inner city. 95% of being a good parent is just showing up.

Your last comment is just ignorant and unrelated.
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This is all a copout. I know people whose had both parentsc present and they "showed up." THey just didn't do any raising. Some seriously messed up and no moral kids. Spare the rod, spoil the child is not about abuse. It's about discipline and accountability. Properly used biblically, it is one of life's finest child rearing things that totally sucks to administer, but if used wisely and not as a go to, very effective. I get the absent parents in the inner city syndrome. But, having both present is no promise of a better kid. Our politicians came from somewhere.
 
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#219
#219
GVF said:
This is all a copout. I know people whose had both parentsc present and they "showed up." THey just didn't do any raising. Some seriously messed up and no moral kids. Spare the rod, spoil the child is not about abuse. It's about discipline and accountability. Properly used biblically, it is one of life's finest child rearing things that totally sucks to administer, but if used wisely and not as a go to, very effective. I get the absent parents in the inner city syndrome. But, having both present is no promise of a better kid. Our politicians came from somewhere.
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Effective parenting and rearing doesn't always require spanking.
 
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#220
#220
I'll say this, the 3-4 times I was spanked really hard or got the switch/belt, I still remember those moments vividly. Is that a good or bad thing? Idk.
 
#221
#221
Gandalf said:
I think we are getting a tad off point here. Back to the main topic.

What makes a man "manly" or masculine. People have put forth a lot of things on this thread and how society has seen it has changed a lot over the most recent years especially.

To me, the central focus of a man is to be strong, whereas for a woman it is to be beautiful. That is not to say physical strength or physical beauty only. It is an approach you take with you into any situation, men bringing strength and women to beautify (improve).

As a family, the man's purpose is to protect/provide and the woman's is to nurture.

Providing protective strength and nurturing beauty - that is the masculine and the feminine IMO. It is how our biology has wired us (and with good reason).
Click to expand...

Strength has nothing to do with being brut. I was taught to protect myself if need be, but that it took a much wiser person to figure out how not to fight.

Strength is character. When you die, the only thing that goes with you is who you were. Pops was a highly regarded man in the world in his profession. But, not a single person in all of those countries, or at home knew him as anything but a man of his word and faith long before they knew him as a scientist or anything else.
 
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#222
#222
DinkinFlicka said:
Effective parenting and rearing doesn't always require spanking.
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Sure doesn't. That's why i said referred to using it as a go to. That is also a copout. But, effective parenting and rearing will at some point require the need to employ a spanking. I had hands, belt, and weeping willow at one point or another, but in every case I brought it on myself. And in no case was it ever abuse with my parents. It wasn't a daily or weekly thing even. Not even monthly. I seriouly doubt I ever had more than a handful over the course of my raising. And waiting in my room for my dad to get home from work was more powerful than the whipping itself.
 
#223
#223
GVF said:
This is all a copout. I know people whose had both parentsc present and they "showed up." THey just didn't do any raising. Some seriously messed up and no moral kids. Spare the rod, spoil the child is not about abuse. It's about discipline and accountability. Properly used biblically, it is one of life's finest child rearing things that totally sucks to administer, but if used wisely and not as a go to, very effective. I get the absent parents in the inner city syndrome. But, having both present is no promise of a better kid. Our politicians came from somewhere.
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If you hit your kids with a rod, you are abusing them. **** that.

The spirit of the sentiment is true, and that is that you can't spare discipline. It has to be a part of a kid's upbringing. The BS part is that it should specifically be corporal punishment.
 
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#224
#224
n_huffhines said:
If you hit your kids with a rod, you are abusing them. **** that.

The spirit of the sentiment is true, and that is that you can't spare discipline. It has to be a part of a kid's upbringing. The BS part is that it should specifically be corporal punishment.
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That is an age old paraphrase of the biblical teaching of discipline. Had switches and belts myself. I would strongly agree that someone using some kind of hard object like rods or pipes or broom handles needs their own flogging. Not advocating that all punishment/discipline should be corporal punishment. Far from it, although corporal punishment is indeed biblical in the sense it was intended. But, at some point, if your other parenting skills are to be cemented, there will be an occasion or two, maybe three, where it is all but necessary. Like anything in life, there are zealots that will reside at one extreme end or the other. That's unavoidable, unfortunately for many.

I promise you one thing. You show me a kid in public that is acting out and will not obey and is pitching immortal fits, and I'll show you one that has not been spanked. When we were told to straighten up and behave, we knew what would happen if we did not. Positive re-enforcement.
 
#225
#225
GVF said:
I promise you one thing. You show me a kid in public that is acting out and will not obey and is pitching immortal fits, and I'll show you one that has not been spanked. When we were told to straighten up and behave, we knew what would happen if we did not. Positive re-enforcement.
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I disagree.

I was spanked frequently as a kid, and I was still a hellion in public. My sister was never spanked, and was a very well-behaved child.
 
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