The Thread Where People Argue About Kneeling in the NFL (merged)

#2,476
#2,476
luthervol said:
I hope that everyone who gets offended by the kneelers or people "disrespecting" the Anthem are intellectually consistent enough to admire the nationalism found in other countries, but ironically......
Click to expand...
You wouldn't know irony if it bit you in the nose. Irony is the NFL athletes kneeling because they feel police and other authorities are behaving unjustly towards black men while they beat their women and utter rude comments toward women and other people.

Well maybe not irony. Certainly hypocritical.

didn't watch 1 minute of the NFL this week. Didn't miss it at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#2,480
#2,480
luthervol said:
Then why is the same concept unconstitutional at the state level? It seems that if it was such a grand concept, it would also be applicable for states.
Click to expand...

Here's your middle school civics from the day you evidently ditched.

-------------------------------
Constitutional FAQ Answer #76 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

The United States is a federal republic and a constitutional representative democracy.

The "federal" part is one of three basic types of organization of power — unitary, confederal, and federal. Most nations are unitary in nature (local government with a powerful national government). There are no confederacies that I know of at this time (the U.S., under the Articles of Confederation was one; Germany and Switzerland have also had confederate systems in the past). Federal systems are common among large nations where several levels of government are needed. Australia, Canada, and Brazil are federal as well. Federations do not always work, such as in the case of the United Arab Republic.


The "republic" implies that we have a strong head of state (the President) and elected officials representing the people.

The "constitutional" part means that we have a constitution, which is pretty obvious, considering this site. Finally, the "representative democracy" part means that the people elect representatives to take care of legislative matters. Originally, the only part of the government that fit this description was the House of Representatives. Today, the Senate does, too, and in current practice, so does the Electoral College.

The mere fact that a nation has a constitution, is a federation, or is a republic, does not imply that minorities are fairly treated. It is the content of that constitution, and the values of that federation and/or republic that protects the rights of minorities. Note that a democracy, in the true sense of the word, does not protect the minority — majority rules.

-------------------------------

But you want a true democracy.
however
--------------------------
http://www.foundingfatherquotes.com/articles/22


...."The authors of these founding documents disagreed on many points, but on one point they ALL agreed wholeheartedly: "The United States is not a democracy, never was, and never was intended to be. It is a Republic."4 ��The following statements represent a small sampling of what the Founding Fathers thought about democracies."......

..."Alexander Hamilton asserted that "We are now forming a Republican form of government. Real liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. If we incline too much to democracy we shall soon shoot into a monarchy, or some other form of a dictatorship."4 �Hamilton, in the last letter he ever wrote, warned that "our real disease�is DEMOCRACY."3


Thomas Jefferson declared: "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."


Benjamin Franklin had similar concerns of a democracy when he warned that “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!” After the Constitutional Convention was concluded, in 1787, a bystander inquired of Franklin: "Well, Doctor, what have we got�a Republic or a Monarchy?" Franklin replied, "A Republic, if you can keep it."


John Adams, our second president, wrote: “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself.”


James Madison, the father of the Constitution wrote in Federalist Paper No. 10 that pure democracies “have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.”3"......
..........................

The Republic of the United States of America is not, and never was intended by the authors The Constitution, to be a pure democracy.

Give it up Luther, and acknowledge your lack of understanding of the principles and their foundations upon which this nation was founded.

Republic NOT democracy.
 
Last edited:
#2,481
#2,481
Orangedogsrule said:
Here's your middle school civics from the day you evidently ditched.

-------------------------------
Constitutional FAQ Answer #76 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

The United States is a federal republic and a constitutional representative democracy.

The "federal" part is one of three basic types of organization of power — unitary, confederal, and federal. Most nations are unitary in nature (local government with a powerful national government). There are no confederacies that I know of at this time (the U.S., under the Articles of Confederation was one; Germany and Switzerland have also had confederate systems in the past). Federal systems are common among large nations where several levels of government are needed. Australia, Canada, and Brazil are federal as well. Federations do not always work, such as in the case of the United Arab Republic.


The "republic" implies that we have a strong head of state (the President) and elected officials representing the people.

The "constitutional" part means that we have a constitution, which is pretty obvious, considering this site. Finally, the "representative democracy" part means that the people elect representatives to take care of legislative matters. Originally, the only part of the government that fit this description was the House of Representatives. Today, the Senate does, too, and in current practice, so does the Electoral College.

The mere fact that a nation has a constitution, is a federation, or is a republic, does not imply that minorities are fairly treated. It is the content of that constitution, and the values of that federation and/or republic that protects the rights of minorities. Note that a democracy, in the true sense of the word, does not protect the minority — majority rules.

-------------------------------
Click to expand...
Gee thanks, that was swell of you. And you think that this answers the question I posed?

I thought that you may find the bolded portions interesting.
 
#2,486
#2,486
Wafflestomper said:
You write a novel and don't even address why, in 2017, the electoral college makes any sense.
Click to expand...

He cut and pasted a novel that had no relevance to the conversation and smugly thought he provided something to the conversation.

Majority vote elects mayors, governors, senators, representatives; but not presidents.

The original question was "if the electoral college system makes sense on the national level (which it does not), then why would it not make sense on the state and local level?"

Is it constitutional? If not, why? (after all, we're not a democracy) If it is constitutional, why do states not choose that method?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#2,487
#2,487
luthervol said:
He cut and pasted a novel that had no relevance to the conversation and smugly thought he provided something to the conversation.

Majority vote elects mayors, governors, senators, representatives; but not presidents.

The original question was "if the electoral college system makes sense on the national level (which it does not), then why would it not make sense on the state and local level?"

Is it constitutional? If not, why? (after all, we're not a democracy) If it is constitutional, why do states not choose that method?
Click to expand...
Fair point actually. IF it weren't for the two liberal pockets (Chicago and E St Louis) in Illinois, it would be a solidly Republican state. Maybe we could get rid of the liberal idiots altogether in one fell swoop. I like the idea.

270px-Illinois_Presidential_Election_Results_2016.svg.png
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#2,489
#2,489
These recent comments itt advocating reducing the political clout of minority communities to help the GOP would seem to confirm suspicions that voter ID and registration laws sponsored by the GOP are in fact race-based to secure more GOP power.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#2,491
#2,491
luthervol said:
He cut and pasted a novel that had no relevance to the conversation and smugly thought he provided something to the conversation.

Majority vote elects mayors, governors, senators, representatives; but not presidents.

The original question was "if the electoral college system makes sense on the national level (which it does not), then why would it not make sense on the state and local level?"

Is it constitutional? If not, why? (after all, we're not a democracy) If it is constitutional, why do states not choose that method?
Click to expand...

Then things would be worse for you and your liberal friends.
 
#2,493
#2,493
SpaceCoastVol said:
Fair point actually. IF it weren't for the two liberal pockets (Chicago and E St Louis) in Illinois, it would be a solidly Republican state. Maybe we could get rid of the liberal idiots altogether in one fell swoop. I like the idea.

270px-Illinois_Presidential_Election_Results_2016.svg.png
Click to expand...

It would be true in almost every state. You wouldn't even have to gerrymander. So why have states not gone this route? If every square mile had an equal vote, republicans would rule the world. You need one acre one vote; not one man one vote. But, every election but one is based on one man one vote with the majority winning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#2,495
#2,495
luthervol said:
Majority vote elects mayors, governors, senators, representatives; but not presidents.
Click to expand...

We’re the United STATES of America. Your first four positions are state and local level, the president is not.

You don’t vote mayoral elections if you’re not a resident, you don’t vote for other districts representatives, etc.

With the pres it’s the states that vote. We are still a collection of states. The more your population, the more weight you have. Aren’t you suppose to care about equality?

Now, quit being a dork.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#2,497
#2,497
Wafflestomper said:
You write a novel and don't even address why, in 2017, the electoral college makes any sense.
Click to expand...

This again?

Our country was founded with the notion of limited powers for the Federal govt with other governing powers being retained by the States. Just as at the founding, states were concerned in a straight national individual vote scenario, small states would have no say.

The same remains true today. Without the EC a very small number of states could determine the leadership of the Federal govt. If anything, the Founders would think the EC more important today than ever given the massively expanded role of the Federal government.

Someone said why Senators and Congress and governors and mayors popular vote instead of EC - simple, they are all State or municipal focused positions. Any state could choose an EC system if they so chose for mayors or governors or state reps. Congressional members are representatives of the state.

The only way states agreed to even having a POTUS was the guarantee that each state mattered (or potentially mattered) to the election.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#2,498
#2,498
tumscalcium said:
We’re the United STATES of America. Your first four positions are state and local level, the president is not.

You don’t vote mayoral elections if you’re not a resident, you don’t vote for other districts representatives, etc.

With the pres it’s the states that vote. We are still a collection of states. The more your population, the more weight you have. Aren’t you suppose to care about equality?

Now, quit being a dork.
Click to expand...

Don't play the fool. You know that it is not weighted in a way that every vote counts the same. A vote in Wyoming carries 3 times the weight as a vote in California. One man's vote should not carry more weight than another's. Are you saying that you think it should?
 
Last edited:
#2,499
#2,499
The average electoral vote represents 436,000 people, but that number rises and falls per state depending on that state’s population over 18 years of age. (The map above shows the population 18 years and older per electoral vote by state.) The states with the fewest people per electoral vote, and therefore the highest “vote power,” are Wyoming, Vermont, and North Dakota. In Wyoming, there are 143,000 people for each of its three electoral votes. The states with the weakest votes are New York, Florida, and California. These states each have around 500,000 people for each electoral vote.

In other words, one Wyoming voter has roughly the same vote power as four New York voters. (Mouse over the map and it will show you where your state ranks in voting power.)
Presidential election: A map showing the vote power of all 50 states.
 
#2,500
#2,500
luthervol said:
Don't play the fool. You know that it is not weighted in a way that every vote counts the same. A vote in Wyoming carries 3 times the weight as a vote in California. One man's vote should not carry more weight than another's. Are you saying that you think it should?
Click to expand...

I'd argue your entire premise that one person's (not man you sexist) vote doesn't count more than another's.

The votes are to choose electorates so in each state the votes have equal weight.

The POTUS election is not a popular vote.

See my previous post as the reason why.

If you don't like it - organize a movement to amend the Constitution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top