The Thread Where People Argue About Kneeling in the NFL (merged)

[marcusluvsvols]

Ras you were acting like a bigot and pretty damn condescending. I meant it I have no problem with you. But I also said you wouldn’t believe me

Perhaps I should have said acting like a bigot. Admittedly I was getting irked though and as I said earlier today really sucked.

Peace out.

Respect this post. As well as you and Ras both. I have apologized several times in the PF...most of the posters here older than say...30...have. always respect it when i see it.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Just curious, how often are military men asked to read the Bill of Rights?

So what I’m referring to is reveille and retreat for when the national colors are raised or lowered. When I’ve been on base working during these set times if we’re not on a flight line working the general process is to face the colors while they are raised or lowered.

I would guess if any doctrine or documents are mandated they would be the UCMJ but I honestly don’t know.

Where are you going with this? Why does our military stress symbols over national ideology or law?

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

You said "dance monkey dance" to players who are protesting racial inequality and you have the nerve to call someone a bigot? We all gave you a pass, too.

So that's what they were protesting?

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Just curious, how often are military men asked to read the Bill of Rights?

Never since they don't apply to the military.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Respect this post. As well as you and Ras both. I have apologized several times in the PF...most of the posters here older than say...30...have. always respect it when i see it.

I was horrified when I had my dumbass moment realization that it might have been Ras I quoted when I made that dance statement. That would have been pretty damn bad as I believe Ras is black (I’ve read that I believe on here)

Luckily I scrolled back up and saw it was just huff 😆

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Ok..my turn, which will get flamed and I dont care.

Love the policy by NFL..it's privately owned business. Don't like it, go play in Canada or arena. Don't care. Simple.

Also... I take the flag very seriously, and could not care less who doesnt agree with me. My pappaw taught me before I even started kindergarten that the flag which flies in front of his house would be treated with the utmost respect...and should it ever touch the ground it would be folded in a specific triangular manner and be buried, or respectfully burned to dispose of it and then replaced. It still flies to this day, and he is now 86 and fading fast. Will see him tomorrow night praise God. He served for 26 years, and has several hundred thousand dollars, vehicles, etc..when he asked me what i want in his will...I told him all I want is His shadow box on the wall with all his medals and a copy of MacArthurs "duty,honor,and country" in it. My dad who just passed from cancer also served for 26 years under that flag, and my mom was just presented the triangular folded flag from his 21 gun salute at his funeral, as I held her trembling arm to hold her up as she wept. That flag doesnt represent "some country, or some soldier" ...it represents the 2 men who taught me how to BE a man. It is a part of them, and a tribute to all men like them.

People may have a right to burn pur flag, but they will do well to never try it aroind me. Because i will beat the Hell out of someone if I see it. Flame away. Don't care. That's just a random flag, that they purchased or stole. The flags from my families retirements and now funeral, those are sacred. If they were molested, I may actually be angry enough to kill someone. Period. They belong to my mom, and my granny, who earned them as well being military wives. You clowns who disrespect the flag have a right to do so...best you don't do it around me, or folks like me (there are many of us) because at the very least ypure gonna wear an azz whippin. Minimum.

As you were.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

So what I’m referring to is reveille and retreat for when the national colors are raised or lowered. When I’ve been on base working during these set times if we’re not on a flight line working the general process is to face the colors while they are raised or lowered.

I would guess if any doctrine or documents are mandated they would be the UCMJ but I honestly don’t know.

Where are you going with this? Why does our military stress symbols over national ideology or law?

My pappaw was 26 yrs USAF...retired at master sergeant.

Dad was 26 yrs USAF, retired lt.colonel

Thanks for your service

 

[NorthDallas40]

My pappaw was 26 yrs USAF...retired at master sergeant.

Dad was 26 yrs USAF, retired lt.colonel

Thanks for your service

I’m just a contractor Marcus I’m not entitled but thanks for the thought I never served. I’ve spent a lot of time military bases though and I’m an Air Force brat also.

I feel similar to you in your other post also. It’s just how we were raised and part of who we are.

 

[volfanhill]

Ok..my turn, which will get flamed and I dont care.

Love the policy by NFL..it's privately owned business. Don't like it, go play in Canada or arena. Don't care. Simple.

Also... I take the flag very seriously, and could not care less who doesnt agree with me. My pappaw taught me before I even started kindergarten that the flag which flies in front of his house would be treated with the utmost respect...and should it ever touch the ground it would be folded in a specific triangular manner and be buried, or respectfully burned to dispose of it and then replaced. It still flies to this day, and he is now 86 and fading fast. Will see him tomorrow night praise God. He served for 26 years, and has several hundred thousand dollars, vehicles, etc..when he asked me what i want in his will...I told him all I want is His shadow box on the wall with all his medals and a copy of MacArthurs "duty,honor,and country" in it. My dad who just passed from cancer also served for 26 years under that flag, and my mom was just presented the triangular folded flag from his 21 gun salute at his funeral, as I held her trembling arm to hold her up as she wept. That flag doesnt represent "some country, or some soldier" ...it represents the 2 men who taught me how to BE a man. It is a part of them, and a tribute to all men like them.

People may have a right to burn pur flag, but they will do well to never try it aroind me. Because i will beat the Hell out of someone if I see it. Flame away. Don't care. That's just a random flag, that they purchased or stole. The flags from my families retirements and now funeral, those are sacred. If they were molested, I may actually be angry enough to kill someone. Period. They belong to my mom, and my granny, who earned them as well being military wives. You clowns who disrespect the flag have a right to do so...best you don't do it around me, or folks like me (there are many of us) because at the very least ypure gonna wear an azz whippin. Minimum.

As you were.

Marcus I understand your stance. But look at it like this. Your family fought for the people’s right to desecrate that flag and not for you to assault them for it.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

I was horrified when I had my dumbass moment realization that it might have been Ras I quoted when I made that dance statement. That would have been pretty damn bad as I believe Ras is black (I’ve read that I believe on here)

Luckily I scrolled back up and saw it was just huff 😆

Yes Ras is black. So are both of my little sisters. I am white..and named Marcus, lol, not many of us.

Ras, in my opinion, never lets race be a factor in his posts. I respect that. I am sure he is proud of who he is and his family, just like me, but skin tone is something that came from birth, that we didn't choose, certainly not an accomplishment or entitlement...and I have never seen him get involved in any of the D4H type lunacy. I dont agree with everything he posts, but I agree with quite a bit and find him to be pretty fair and balanced most of the time. There are some liberal posters on here (Ras isnt a lib) who are straight up insane...and predictable. I can spot an LG thread by the title 90% of the time...and know what Luther and the others are going to say 90% of the time as well. I am not unique, most of us can..

I am a habitual lurker. Probably average 1 post a day, in 1 thread in the PF...but I read nearly everything posted here. In every thread. I love to read, almost never watch TV...so I here every day, more than once. Most of these guys I have known for a long, long time. I speak to several on the phone. Ape, and pastor OC more than others. Both are great guys. OC is very well studied on the Bible, as well as other texts and apologetics. He is also a prayer partner of mine. I surely need it, we all do.

Anyway, gotta get ready for tomorrow, kids awards day at school and they both cleaned house again this year. Very lucky and blessed to be their dad.

 

[MercyPercy]

Ok..my turn, which will get flamed and I dont care.

Love the policy by NFL..it's privately owned business. Don't like it, go play in Canada or arena. Don't care. Simple.

Also... I take the flag very seriously, and could not care less who doesnt agree with me. My pappaw taught me before I even started kindergarten that the flag which flies in front of his house would be treated with the utmost respect...and should it ever touch the ground it would be folded in a specific triangular manner and be buried, or respectfully burned to dispose of it and then replaced. It still flies to this day, and he is now 86 and fading fast. Will see him tomorrow night praise God. He served for 26 years, and has several hundred thousand dollars, vehicles, etc..when he asked me what i want in his will...I told him all I want is His shadow box on the wall with all his medals and a copy of MacArthurs "duty,honor,and country" in it. My dad who just passed from cancer also served for 26 years under that flag, and my mom was just presented the triangular folded flag from his 21 gun salute at his funeral, as I held her trembling arm to hold her up as she wept. That flag doesnt represent "some country, or some soldier" ...it represents the 2 men who taught me how to BE a man. It is a part of them, and a tribute to all men like them.

People may have a right to burn pur flag, but they will do well to never try it aroind me. Because i will beat the Hell out of someone if I see it. Flame away. Don't care. That's just a random flag, that they purchased or stole. The flags from my families retirements and now funeral, those are sacred. If they were molested, I may actually be angry enough to kill someone. Period. They belong to my mom, and my granny, who earned them as well being military wives. You clowns who disrespect the flag have a right to do so...best you don't do it around me, or folks like me (there are many of us) because at the very least ypure gonna wear an azz whippin. Minimum.

As you were.

And you end up in jail, while mom has to explain why daddy can't eat dinner with them tonight because he violently attacked another person that was not threatening him (great lesson). Then there's the pending civil suit which might eat into potential college tuition.

You're a genuine guy Marcus. I know a guy just like you. Been my good friend for many years, even rented a house with him for a couple years. I'd trust him with my life and behind all the bluster he had a good heart. ****, he even works construction projects (pools). But I'll be damned if he doesn't have the biggest mouth and say some dumb ****, and even do some dumb **** (though not nearly as much as his talk would have you believe). Yall gotta start thinking a little bit harder on what makes the most sense for you and your family instead of what would make you feel better at the time. Don't attack someone for such a stupid thing bro. Who is gonna give us page long anecdotes when you get put in the drunk tank with ape?

 

[NorthDallas40]

Marcus I understand your stance. But look at it like this. Your family fought for the people’s right to desecrate that flag and not for you to assault them for it.

I agree with everything you’ve said here. And I’ve talked with friends about how we would react. Best I could answer is I would attempt to secure the flag without assaulting whomever was desecrating it. I guess I could be charged with theft. Ok. Or walk away. But I don’t know if I could do that.

That goes for fellow citizens though only.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Where are you going with this? Why does our military stress symbols over national ideology or law?

I am simply illustrating the misdirected outrage and focus. The military, as well as every other federal, state and local office holder makes an oath to uphold the Constitution... not the flag.

Why no outrage over Constitutional violations (Stop and Frisk, Patriot Act, asset forfeiture, the drug war), yet some guys taking a knee on Sundays before playing a kids' game seems to wake up the troops and patriots.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I was horrified when I had my dumbass moment realization that it might have been Ras I quoted when I made that dance statement. That would have been pretty damn bad as I believe Ras is black (I’ve read that I believe on here)

Luckily I scrolled back up and saw it was just huff 😆

I am black, but I still love your racist azz.

 

[volbeast33]

I am black, but I still love your racist azz.

see we can get along

 

[NorthDallas40]

i am black, but i still love your racist azz.

😘
I guess I can join the Louder and joe club now.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yes Ras is black. So are both of my little sisters. I am white..and named Marcus, lol, not many of us.

Ras, in my opinion, never lets race be a factor in his posts. I respect that. I am sure he is proud of who he is and his family, just like me, but skin tone is something that came from birth, that we didn't choose, certainly not an accomplishment or entitlement...and I have never seen him get involved in any of the D4H type lunacy. I dont agree with everything he posts, but I agree with quite a bit and find him to be pretty fair and balanced most of the time. There are some liberal posters on here (Ras isnt a lib) who are straight up insane...and predictable. I can spot an LG thread by the title 90% of the time...and know what Luther and the others are going to say 90% of the time as well. I am not unique, most of us can..

I am a habitual lurker. Probably average 1 post a day, in 1 thread in the PF...but I read nearly everything posted here. In every thread. I love to read, almost never watch TV...so I here every day, more than once. Most of these guys I have known for a long, long time. I speak to several on the phone. Ape, and pastor OC more than others. Both are great guys. OC is very well studied on the Bible, as well as other texts and apologetics. He is also a prayer partner of mine. I surely need it, we all do.

Anyway, gotta get ready for tomorrow, kids awards day at school and they both cleaned house again this year. Very lucky and blessed to be their dad.

Marcus, my belief is that we have a lot more in common with each other than not. Liberals have tried to make us focus on all of our differences because that plays into their identity politics game. I think the overwhelming majority of blacks, whites, Christians, Hindus, Jews. Muslims, Chinese, Russians, Latinos want a simple life, an honest days work, for an honest days pay, a warm meal with the family as often as possible, and a loving, supportive partner to share their lives with.

But instead of this, we would rather argue about petty stuff like flags, what someone chooses to ingest in their bodies, how much money does their neighbor make, and all kinds of other nonsense that has absolutely diddly źsquat to do with our individual lives.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I am simply illustrating the misdirected outrage and focus. The military, as well as every other federal, state and local office holder makes an oath to uphold the Constitution... not the flag.

Why no outrage over Constitutional violations (Stop and Frisk, Patriot Act, asset forfeiture, the drug war), yet some guys taking a knee on Sundays before playing a kids' game seems to wake up the troops and patriots.

Ras to oversimplify I think they just view it as not their role. They answer the orders given within their chain of command. That’s it. Only exception would probably be an order considered unlawful by UCMJ which they should ignore.

And has others have eluded to within the service their personal responses to the kneeling are probably as diverse as ours.

You made a comment earlier about some of the people outraged probably don’t even care about the NFL. I’d say you’re right.

However consider this. I submit the kneeling is purely a provocative act. It’s sole purpose is to incite an emotional response. And it works pretty damn well. If Kapernick had stayed in the locker room and then said to the media “hey guys you know why I was in the locker room during the anthem? ...” then A) he would probably still have a job and B) I’d be behind him 100%. I think that is the right approach. If other guys then chose to stay in the locker room then I bet they would have garnered support.

And let me ask you this. During all your pondering on this did you consider how Alejandro Villeneuva felt when the Steelers chose as a team to all stay in the locker room? Why did the team have the right to force that moral dilemma on him?

 

[Squints]

Marcus, my belief is that we have a lot more in common with each other than we not. Liberals have tried to make us focus on all of our differences because that plays into their identity politics game. I think the overwhelming majority of blacks, whites, Christians, Hindus, Jews. Muslims, Chinese, Russians, Latinos want a simple life, an honest days work, for an honest days pay, a warm meal with the family as often as possible, and a loving, supportive partner to share their lives with.

But instead of this, we would rather argue about petty stuff like flags, what someone chooses to ingest in their bodies, how much money does their neighbor make, and all kinds of other nonsense that has absolutely diddly źsquat to do with our individual lives.

Good post. You’re an enigma. Not that it’s bad, you just play on the peripheral fringes of contentious political debates.

Hats off to you, though, you’re not a liberal and you’re consistent.

 

[joevol33]

I am black, but I still love your racist azz.

If he's racist, does that mean I'm not racist Joe anymore?

 

[joevol33]

😘
I guess I can join the Louder and joe club now.

I should've flipped the page before I responded 🤣

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ras to oversimplify I think they just view it as not their role. They answer the orders given within their chain of command. That’s it. Only exception would probably be an order considered unlawful by UCMJ which they should ignore.

And has others have eluded to within the service their personal responses to the kneeling are probably as diverse as ours.

You made a comment earlier about some of the people outraged probably don’t even care about the NFL. I’d say you’re right.

However consider this. I submit the kneeling is purely a provocative act. It’s sole purpose is to incite an emotional response. And it works pretty damn well. If Kapernick had stayed in the locker room and then said to the media “hey guys you know why I was in the locker room during the anthem? ...” then A) he would probably still have a job and B) I’d be behind him 100%. I think that is the right approach. If other guys then chose to stay in the locker room then I bet they would have garnered support.

And let me ask you this. During all your pondering on this did you consider how Alejandro Villeneuva felt when the Steelers chose as a team to all stay in the locker room? Why did the team have the right to force that moral dilemma on him?

A. I doubt he would still have a job, nor should he. The team and the league asks you to come out as part of their employment, you either come out and play the game or deal with the consequences.

B. Alejandro Villeneuva's situation is a violation of team rules. Let's be fair and balanced. If it is wrong for Kapernick to violate team rules, why not for Villeneuva?

Again, the simple answer for me is that a flag shouldn't even be the issue one way or the other in the first place. There are far bigger fish to fry for everyone besides this.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Does anyone still believe that the whole kneeling fiasco was about social injustice?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Good post. You’re an enigma.

I simply don’t trap myself in party politics. I will occasionally lean right on certain issues and left on a few others. But I like to focus on peace, stability and harmony.

 

[NorthDallas40]

A. I doubt he would still have a job, nor should he. The team and the league asks you to come out as part of their employment, you either come out and play the game or deal with the consequences.

B. Alejandro Villeneuva's situation is a violation of team rules. Let's be fair and balanced. If it is wrong for Kapernick to violate team rules, why not for Villeneuva?

Again, the simple answer for me is that a flag shouldn't even be the issue one way or the other in the first place. There are far bigger fish to fry for everyone besides this.

Hmmm.

A) agree the NFL forced the issue but I would suggest he could have worked the angle for a bit and then just said “ hey I’m doing what they told me to”. And also to be fair to Kapernick he didn’t ask for this. It was blown out of proportion by the media. But I still submit he made a tactical blunder and could have handled it better.

B) so the team was correct in forcing a decorated combat veteran who served multiple tours with the Army Rangers to chose between adhering to team rules or breaking his own moral code of conduct? Also I don’t think it was a team rule violation I think the team just wanted to make a unified stance. Nor do I think he got any blow back from it, none I’m aware of anyway could be wrong. I believe he felt worse about it than the team did.

But as you’ve said this is all just wildly blown out of proportion. I agree with that. It never should have happened in the first place. You choose to shrug it off. I’d like to see it gone. I view it as inciting a response in an improper venue.

In the end we both get what we want. Now the players can A) attend the anthem and stand or B) choose to stay in the locker room. Player choice between options and able to still make their statement in a noninciting fashion. If any player chooses to attend and kneel he is acting in a flagrant provocative fashion and should be punished accordingly as far as I’m concerned. That’s just my opinion. I do realize you feel we should just ignore the whole thing. That’s cool too.

Now I’m gonna go play some XBox.