The Thread Where People Argue About Kneeling in the NFL (merged)

#5,852
#5,852
Rasputin_Vol said:
They were clear, and most people with intelligence knows that they are not directing their protest at the military. This has been said countless times to the point of it being nauseating.

Either the other side is as dim as a 5W bulb or they are just being disingenuous in trying to define their cause. I think most on the other side are intelligent and know good and damn well what they are doing, so l lean more on the latter than the former.
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If an Alabama player pissed on a Tennessee jersey before a game and said this isn’t about Tennessee, it’s me protesting ICE, can you see how fans of Tennessee may take it differently?
 
#5,854
#5,854
DancingOutlaw said:
If an Alabama player pissed on a Tennessee jersey before a game and said this isn’t about Tennessee, it’s me protesting ICE, can you see how fans of Tennessee may take it differently?
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That is not the same thing. Again, the flag does not just belong to the military. It also represents the things that this country stands for and proclaims to defend from enemies foreign and domestic. To boil it down to the flag or national anthem being just about the military is completely disingenuous.
 
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#5,855
#5,855
Rasputin_Vol said:
That is not the same thing. Again, the flag does not just belong to the military. It also represents the things that this country stands for and proclaims to defend from enemies foreign and domestic. Time boil it down to the flag or national anthem being just about the military is completely disingenuous.
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RAS and I rarely agree but he is 100% accurate on this.
 
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#5,856
#5,856
DancingOutlaw said:
If an Alabama player pissed on a Tennessee jersey before a game and said this isn’t about Tennessee, it’s me protesting ICE, can you see how fans of Tennessee may take it differently?
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One would expect an Alabama player to have animosity toward Tennessee. There is no context, whatsoever, that suggests that NFL players dislike American soldiers. It's ludicrous and everyone here knows it.
 
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#5,857
#5,857
volfanhill said:
So you are upset that they are just now using their platform to protest? I mean you just admitted it’s a problem in a toungue and cheek way. I agree they should have protested earlier. And the whole black citizens killing black citizens doesn’t make any sense. The government killing people is different then citizens.
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Upset? Not in the slightest. Big difference between being upset and thinking something is ridiculous.
 
#5,859
#5,859
Septic said:
They are protesting DURING the flag and anthem, it has nothing to do with the flag or the anthem.

The timing is a platform for attention..................... and it's working.
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If by working you mean killing the NFL and doing absolutely nothing to address the problem, then ya, I guess it’s working.
 
#5,860
#5,860
NashVol11 said:
One would expect an Alabama player to have animosity toward Tennessee. There is no context, whatsoever, that suggests that NFL players dislike American soldiers. It's ludicrous and everyone here knows it.
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My grandfather survived Pearl Harbor. When he died the marine corps carefully folded that flag and handed it to my father. If you don’t understand why some people get upset for the perceived disrespect of taking a knee then there’s no hope for you.
It’s true that people like my grandfather put their life on the line so others could protest. In this case the choice of protest was stupid. The message has been lost in the perceived disrespect
 
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#5,861
#5,861
tumscalcium said:
Getting worked up? I think it’s great. Pointing out their stupidity and inconsistency has been fun.
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The irony here is too much.

I think they've been pretty consistent. e.g. kneeling in protest of police brutality.

You just don't agree with their gripe so you choose to make the protest about the platform. e.g. the anthem.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with the platform they've chosen, but I understand it and you can't deny its effectiveness.

It's really quite astonishing you can't wrap your head around this, it's really not that difficult of a concept.
 
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#5,863
#5,863
Septic said:
The irony here is too much.

I think they've been pretty consistent. e.g. kneeling in protest of police brutality.

You just don't agree with their gripe so you choose to make the protest about the platform. e.g. the anthem.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with the platform they've chosen, but I understand it and you can't deny its effectiveness.

It's really quite astonishing you can't wrap your head around this, it's really not that difficult of a concept.
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Negative. You have bent over, turned around, knelt down, and swallowed everything they’ve told you to swallow. I haven’t.

They protest the flag and anthem in the name of “police brutality” while Kaep shows support for Fidel Castro. Very inconsistent.

If it wasn’t about the flag or anthem, they wouldn’t be protesting the flag or anthem. Again, not hard to understand.

I can deny the effectiveness. What has it done to help their alleged cause? They’ve just turned most people off, though they have managed to turn some, like you, into their *****. So there’s that.

It’s not astonishing that you can’t wrap your head over the muddled message. You’ve never shown to understand anything.
 
#5,864
#5,864
NashVol11 said:
They probably thought that when they unanimously stated it wasn’t about the military, people would understand that instead of covering their ears and trying to twist it into something evil. You can blame the players for fans’ willful ignorance if you want, but it seems pretty misdirected to me
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You can't just say that and it becomes so. It comes down to why you stand, I stand to honor those in the military who gave the ultimate sacrifice for this country. As an example, you will never convince me that kneeling does not dishonor those same people. Talk about, debate it, whatever I will not be convinced. This is why its a bad venue for a protest. They need to make a move to get attention away from the anthem and back to their original cause.
 
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#5,865
#5,865
NashVol11 said:
One would expect an Alabama player to have animosity toward Tennessee. There is no context, whatsoever, that suggests that NFL players dislike American soldiers. It's ludicrous and everyone here knows it.
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Jesus you guys handle hypotheticals well. I thought that would be easy but instead I got a collection of dumb answers.

Every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine wears that flag on their uniform. To some it’s a patch, to others it means a lot more. So if they think your indirect action is disrespectful, who are you to argue?
 
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#5,866
#5,866
DancingOutlaw said:
Jesus you guys handle hypotheticals well. I thought that would be easy but instead I got a collection of dumb answers.

Every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine wears that flag on their uniform. To some it’s a patch, to others it means a lot more. So if they think your indirect action is disrespectful, who are you to argue?
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Nothing dumb about it. The players are very obviously not anti-military and people are choosing to get offended anyway. That’s all there is to it.

If a groundskeeper tells me kneeling is disrespectful because it messes up his grass, then sure, I can’t argue with him, but I absolutely can think he’s missed the point by a mile. And that’s his own fault, not any player’s.
 
#5,867
#5,867
Orangeslice13 said:
My grandfather survived Pearl Harbor. When he died the marine corps carefully folded that flag and handed it to my father. If you don’t understand why some people get upset for the perceived disrespect of taking a knee then there’s no hope for you.
It’s true that people like my grandfather put their life on the line so others could protest. In this case the choice of protest was stupid. The message has been lost in the perceived disrespect
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Again, it is a Pavlovian response that has been shoved down our throats. If anything, our soldiers are supposed to be putting their lives on the line to uphold and protect the Constitution... not the flag.

We should have far more outrage over violations and disrespect paid to The Constitution (something that actually matters in our daily lives) versus disrespect to a symbol.
 
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#5,868
#5,868
Septic said:
The irony here is too much.

I think they've been pretty consistent. e.g. kneeling in protest of police brutality.

You just don't agree with their gripe so you choose to make the protest about the platform. e.g. the anthem.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with the platform they've chosen, but I understand it and you can't deny its effectiveness.

It's really quite astonishing you can't wrap your head around this, it's really not that difficult of a concept.
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Again, they are just being difficult. They know it has nothing to do with the military. They just choose to twist it into something else in effort to de-legitimize their gripe.

But on the other hand, it is really hard for me to take most of these players seriously when they don't offer solutions and don't really want to do anything about the issue outside of stroking a check or giving lip service.

Both sides of this are immature and the world would probably be a better place if they both were removed from the rest of society.
 
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#5,869
#5,869
tumscalcium said:
If it wasn’t about the flag or anthem, they wouldn’t be protesting the flag or anthem. Again, not hard to understand.
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The flag and anthem represent this country and what it claims to stand for. The actions of the law enforcement agencies in this country as well as the lawmakers go against those held stated beliefs. Thus, they are protesting the fact that the country (symbolized by the flag and the anthem) isn't living up to its stated beliefs in certain areas.

Even though I don't agree with the protest and think some of the players are just doing it to get attention and/or spite Trump, it really isn't that difficult to connect the dots and see the (flawed) logic as to why the national anthem was chosen as the time and place.

Most of you all are just making yourselves look just as ridiculous as the protesters by continuing to go down this road of involving the military in the discussion when you all know deep down it has nothing to do with the military.
 
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#5,870
#5,870
IPleadInsanity said:
You can't just say that and it becomes so. It comes down to why you stand, I stand to honor those in the military who gave the ultimate sacrifice for this country. As an example, you will never convince me that kneeling does not dishonor those same people.
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One more time... the flag doesn't just belong to the military... it is a representation of ALL the people and our values. It really bothers me that most of you show so much reverence to a flag or a song but would not crush a grape whenever our Constitution is violated on a daily basis (often by the very same police that most of these players are protesting against). Those soldiers and law enforcement officers make a pledge to uphold The Constitution... not to protect the flag.

IPleadInsanity said:
Talk about, debate it, whatever I will not be convinced. This is why its a bad venue for a protest. They need to make a move to get attention away from the anthem and back to their original cause.
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It is a protest. Where is a good venue for a protest?
 
#5,871
#5,871
Rasputin_Vol said:
The flag and anthem represent this country and what it claims to stand for. The actions of the law enforcement agencies in this country as well as the lawmakers go against those held stated beliefs. Thus, they are protesting the fact that the country (symbolized by the flag and the anthem) isn't living up to its stated beliefs in certain areas.

Even though I don't agree with the protest and think some of the players are just doing it to get attention and/or spite Trump, it really isn't that difficult to connect the dots and see the (flawed) logic as to why the national anthem was chosen as the time and place.

Most of you all are just making yourselves look just as ridiculous as the protesters by continuing to go down this road of involving the military in the discussion when you all know deep down it has nothing to do with the military.
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The bold includes a lot of things, including the military.

So now they’re protesting the country? I thought they were protesting alleged police brutality? You’re not keeping your story straight either.

Are you starting to finally see that their message is stupid and muddled?
 
#5,872
#5,872
tumscalcium said:
The bold includes a lot of things, including the military.

So now they’re protesting the country? I thought they were protesting alleged police brutality? You’re not keeping your story straight either.

Are you starting to finally see that their message is stupid and muddled?
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They are protesting Trump saying that they shouldn't be protesting.
 
#5,873
#5,873
Rasputin_Vol said:
One more time... the flag doesn't just belong to the military... it is a representation of ALL the people and our values. It really bothers me that most of you show so much reverence to a flag or a song but would not crush a grape whenever our Constitution is violated on a daily basis (often by the very same police that most of these players are protesting against). Those soldiers and law enforcement officers make a pledge to uphold The Constitution... not to protect the flag.


It is a protest. Where is a good venue for a protest?
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Anywhere else, geez! After the anthem, during the game, wear uniforms backwards, moon the crowd, block the band from entering the field at the half, hand out autographed flyers to fans as they enter the stadium, refuse to play the game. I don't know, they make the big bucks, hire someone to think of something better.
 
#5,874
#5,874
tumscalcium said:
The bold includes a lot of things, including the military.
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It includes the military. I haven't denied that. But, as I've said countless times, it doesn't belong ONLY to the military.


tumscalcium said:
So now they’re protesting the country? I thought they were protesting alleged police brutality? You’re not keeping your story straight either.
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You are smarter than this. You clearly only read half of the sentence you highlighted.
The flag and anthem represent this country and what it claims to stand for.
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tumscalcium said:
Are you starting to finally see that their message is stupid and muddled?
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I've never been a fan of the protest from the beginning. I do, however, understand the message and can easily connect the dots between the flag and their grievances without throwing something else tangential in the mix.
 
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