The Thread Where People Argue About Kneeling in the NFL (merged)

[tumscalcium]

It includes the military. I haven't denied that. But, as I've said countless times, it doesn't belong ONLY to the military.



You are smarter than this. You clearly only read half of the sentence you highlighted.



I've never been a fan of the protest from the beginning. I do, however, understand the message and can easily connect the dots between the flag and their grievances without throwing something else tangential in the mix.

It’s been repeated that it doesn’t only belong to the military. It sure has something to do with he military. septic had asserted earlier that is has nothing to do with the military. Go cry about that.

They can have their message. Most don’t care about it because they chose to disrespect everyone rather than voice their concern.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Jesus you guys handle hypotheticals well. I thought that would be easy but instead I got a collection of dumb answers.

Every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine wears that flag on their uniform. To some it’s a patch, to others it means a lot more. So if they think your indirect action is disrespectful, who are you to argue?

Your analogy sucks because a Tennessee jersey represents the school, the fans and what it stands for. Just like the flag stands for the people (not just the soldiers), the culture and what the country stands for.

But to try to fix your mind to say that since some guy destroys a Tennessee football jersey that he is disrespecting Tennessee State Troopers would be ridiculous, just like saying disrespecting the US flag is an attack on the soldiers.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It’s been repeated that it doesn’t only belong to the military. It sure has something to do with he military. septic had asserted earlier that is has nothing to do with the military. Go cry about that.

They can have their message. Most don’t care about it because they chose to disrespect everyone rather than voice their concern.

That is the bottom line. If the opposition just kept it to that, then we might actually get somewhere. Instead, they choose to play symbolic judo and try to pull in tangential elements into a conversation when they don't even belong.

 

[tumscalcium]

That is the bottom line. If the opposition just kept it to that, then we might actually get somewhere. Instead, they choose to play symbolic judo and try to pull in tangential elements into a conversation when they don't even belong.

Negative. It’s not up to the “opposition” to try and make the point for the idiots.

It’s up to the idiots to quit being idiots and maybe people will take them seriously.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It’s been repeated that it doesn’t only belong to the military. It sure has something to do with he military. septic had asserted earlier that is has nothing to do with the military. Go cry about that.

They can have their message. Most don’t care about it because they chose to disrespect everyone rather than voice their concern.

I think in that exchange the "it" was more directed at the "protest" not being about the military, not the flag. Part of that is just the nature of the debate because the people that are opposed to the protest have injected the military into the conversation when it has no business.

 

[NashVol11]

It is a protest. Where is a good venue for a protest?

“Somewhere I don’t have to deal with it”

 

[tumscalcium]

I think in that exchange the "it" was more directed at the "protest" not being about the military, not the flag. Part of that is just the nature of the debate because the people that are opposed to the protest have injected the military into the conversation when it has no business.

When talking about the flag and the anthem the military sure is something about it whether you like it or not.

 

[T-TownVol]

How has it been effective? It's been more counter productive and divisive.

Bump, none of the pro-cause/protest people have chosen to answer.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Again, it is a Pavlovian response that has been shoved down our throats. If anything, our soldiers are supposed to be putting their lives on the line to uphold and protect the Constitution... not the flag.

We should have far more outrage over violations and disrespect paid to The Constitution (something that actually matters in our daily lives) versus disrespect to a symbol.

I don’t disagree with your assessment of how it “should “ be. Just explaining why the reactions happen and that those reactions are reasonable.

Hell today on the news there were 2 soldiers that went into a series storm to rescue a flag that got blown over

 

[tumscalcium]

“Somewhere I don’t have to deal with it”

What you’re actually protesting would be a good start. I’m not going to protest in front of Sears if I have an issue with McDonalds.

 

[NashVol11]

Negative. It’s not up to the “opposition” to try and make the point for the idiots.

It’s up to the idiots to quit being idiots and maybe people will take them seriously.

Issues like police brutality and mistreatment of human lives should be taken seriously regardless. If you need someone else to cater to you in order to MAKE you take it seriously, that says more about you than them.

Ras is right, people just don’t care about the issue and are misdirecting blame for their apathy at players.

 

[NashVol11]

Negative. It’s not up to the “opposition” to try and make the point for the idiots.

It’s up to the idiots to quit being idiots and maybe people will take them seriously.

Issues like police brutality and mistreatment of human lives should be taken seriously regardless. If you need someone else to cater to you in order to MAKE you take it seriously, that says more about you than them.

Ras is right, people just don’t care about the issue and are misdirecting blame at players for their apathy.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Negative. It’s not up to the “opposition” to try and make the point for the idiots.

It’s up to the idiots to quit being idiots and maybe people will take them seriously.

Which idiots? You have idiots on both sides. And the protesters have already made their point. And deep down, I think you understand clearly what their point is. You're just playing games because you disagree with their cause and probably don't want to deal with the subject matter (police brutality). So instead, you all have cleverly sidetracked the conversation and made it about the military.

I am confident that most of you are intelligent people and you all know good and damn well that your attempts to connect this to the military is weak. But for the dimwits that are out here, it makes it easy to distract them from the real subject matter.

You're smarter than this, tums. Just come clean and admit this is just faux outrage and we can have a serious conversation.

 

[tumscalcium]

Issues like police brutality and mistreatment of human lives should be taken seriously regardless. If you need someone else to cater to you in order to MAKE you take it seriously, that says more about you than them.

Ras is right, people just don’t care about the issue and are misdirecting blame for their apathy at players.

Why care about a non-issue?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I don’t disagree with your assessment of how it “should “ be. Just explaining why the reactions happen and that those reactions are reasonable.

Hell today on the news there were 2 soldiers that went into a series storm to rescue a flag that got blown over

I have a slight problem with that story, if true. Where are the soldiers here at home that are defending our Constitution?

Do you understand what I'm getting at? We have all of this misdirected outrage, yet the things that really matter get ignored.

 

[NashVol11]

What you’re actually protesting would be a good start. I’m not going to protest in front of Sears if I have an issue with McDonalds.

Protest in front of a police station and interfere with cops doing their jobs. No way that could backfire

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

How has it been effective? It's been more counter productive and divisive.

I don't think most people one way or the other are going to argue the protest is ineffective and counterproductive. The problem comes in with the "divisive" nature of the protest because I believe that is something that has been created muddy the waters because the military is being thrown into the mix.

 

[tumscalcium]

Which idiots? You have idiots on both sides. And the protesters have already made their point. And deep down, I think you understand clearly what their point is. You're just playing games because you disagree with their cause and probably don't want to deal with the subject matter (police brutality). So instead, you all have cleverly sidetracked the conversation and made it about the military.

I am confident that most of you are intelligent people and you all know good and damn well that your attempts to connect this to the military is weak. But for the dimwits that are out here, it makes it easy to distract them from the real subject matter.

You're smarter than this, tums. Just come clean and admit this is just faux outrage and we can have a serious conversation.

The idiots protesting. Start at the source.

The military is represented by the flag whether you like it or not. It’s not convenient for you so you try sidestepping it.

I’ve never said they can’t protest. I don’t advocate for them being suspended or fired or whatever.

I would like to see them make a clear point and protest what they’re actually protesting instead of protesting something else it would make things easier for them.

They’re upset with A. They protest B and wonder why no one understands that they’re not protesting B, but rather A when they won’t protest A, but rather B.

You’re having to jump through hoops to explain it. That’s why their message is muddled. They don’t even know what they’re doing. It’s hilatious.

Don’t make me the problem. Take it up with Jim Brown. He’s respectable and he gets it. No hoops.

Hall of Famer Jim Brown supports NFL players' rights but says he would not kneel during anthem


Not to mention, how can you respect men who choose to live on their knees?

 

[tumscalcium]

Protest in front of a police station and interfere with cops doing their jobs. No way that could backfire

So only protest in a place of convenience where you’re safe behind the protection of cops? Yeah, that’ll do it! Lmao

 

[tumscalcium]

I don't think most people one way or the other are going to argue the protest is ineffective and counterproductive. The problem comes in with the "divisive" nature of the protest because I believe that is something that has been created muddy the waters because the military is being thrown into the mix.

The military wasn’t added to the mix. The players chose that route. That was their mistake.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Why care about a non-issue?

Which proves my point. Police brutality isn't an issue for you and you don't want to have the conversation... so instead, you sidetrack and misrepresent the grievances of the opposition.

 

[1972 Grad]

Which makes both Trump and the protesters look silly and childish.

I don't disagree.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The military wasn’t added to the mix. The players chose that route. That was their mistake.

Where did the players say the military was part of their protest?

 

[NashVol11]

Where did the players say the military was part of their protest?

It’s because the flag is involved, and the flag represents all of America including the military. I hear post office workers are very upset as well.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The military is represented by the flag whether you like it or not.

They are not the ONLY thing represented by that flag.

I feel like you keep wanting to drive this conversation back into a circle. The flag also represents what culture of America, the people and what we claim to value and believe in. The actions of a lot of these cops runs counter to what this country is supposed to be about. It really isn't that hard to connect the dots here... unless you are just on a mission to be disruptive and an agent of chaos.