The Thread Where People Argue About Kneeling in the NFL (merged)

[HammondB3Vol]

Concepts award rights? What are you saying?

The flag stands for a lot of things and it's myopic to expect people to revere it the way you do simply because some of the things the flag stands for are good.

The flag and song are not about policy. I don’t agree with everything my government does domestically and abroad for that matter, but I think respect is due to the symbol that gives you the freedom to speak out against your government’s policy. If you don’t like a particular policy, then speak out against it. Refusing to show respect to the country that allows you to do that is just theater, grandstanding and totally useless.

 

[hog88]

Before this turned into a basketball discussion I asked this question and got no answers.

What is patriotism? Showing patriotism?

So what exactly is patriotism or defines what a patriot is and what do consider showing patriotism?

 

[MercyPercy]

People still wetting their britches over what an athlete they proclaim to not care about does during the national anthem in a sport they also claim to not care about it

 

[Orangeburst]

Before this turned into a basketball discussion I asked this question and got no answers.



So what exactly is patriotism or defines what a patriot is and what do consider showing patriotism?

Tom Brady was a patriot

 

[n_huffhines]

The flag and song are not about policy. I don’t agree with everything my government does domestically and abroad for that matter, but I think respect is due to the symbol that gives you the freedom to speak out against your government’s policy. If you don’t like a particular policy, then speak out against it. Refusing to show respect to the country that allows you to do that is just theater, grandstanding and totally useless.

That's what a flag protest is for me, lol.

I don't understand why I have to revere a country simply because I have freedom of speech. That's a crazy low bar.

I don't disrespect the flag, but I'm not doing all that worship stuff either.

 

[LouderVol]

Before this turned into a basketball discussion I asked this question and got no answers.



So what exactly is patriotism or defines what a patriot is and what do consider showing patriotism?

I think patriotism is generally love/support for your country. But I think a lot of people break that down in different ways, especially in this country. I think that was part of the reason America was so different from every other nation it wasn't some hard and fast identity that people were behind.

For some people it may be the physical country.
For others it may be the people of the country.
for others its the government of the country.
for others its the idea of that country.

and of course any mix of the above, and probably some other options too. and just because people are patriots to one of those distinctions doesn't mean they necessarily agree with each other.

I think how you show your patriotism really depends on what influences your patriotism. and the same act by two individuals may be patriotic for one, and not for the other. same with what one considers disrespect/wrong, may not be considered disrespectful or wrong to another.

I think our FFs would not be considered patriotic by either major party today. I think they would have been some of the first to burn the flag or kneel at the anthem if they believe the country as a whole didn't reflect their idea of the country. They also would have been the first to act against the government and 100% would have been there storming the capitol or leading a "mostly peaceful protest". Being a patriot doesn't inherently make your actions right or popular. for some it may the most patriotic option to be counter to any major party.

 

[HammondB3Vol]

That's what a flag protest is for me, lol.

I don't understand why I have to revere a country simply because I have freedom of speech. That's a crazy low bar.

I don't disrespect the flag, but I'm not doing all that worship stuff either.

We can agree to disagree. I wonder if communist countries think freedom of speech is a low bar?

 

[hog88]

I think patriotism is generally love/support for your country. But I think a lot of people break that down in different ways, especially in this country. I think that was part of the reason America was so different from every other nation it wasn't some hard and fast identity that people were behind.

For some people it may be the physical country.
For others it may be the people of the country.
for others its the government of the country.
for others its the idea of that country.

and of course any mix of the above, and probably some other options too. and just because people are patriots to one of those distinctions doesn't mean they necessarily agree with each other.

I think how you show your patriotism really depends on what influences your patriotism. and the same act by two individuals may be patriotic for one, and not for the other. same with what one considers disrespect/wrong, may not be considered disrespectful or wrong to another.

I think our FFs would not be considered patriotic by either major party today. I think they would have been some of the first to burn the flag or kneel at the anthem if they believe the country as a whole didn't reflect their idea of the country. They also would have been the first to act against the government and 100% would have been there storming the capitol or leading a "mostly peaceful protest". Being a patriot doesn't inherently make your actions right or popular. for some it may the most patriotic option to be counter to any major party.

Good answer and I agree with a lot of what you said.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Lee Greenwood is a Patriot. Take some notes Huff.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Probably costs around 100k for Lee to sing to you.

 

[hog88]

Lee Greenwood is a Patriot. Take some notes Huff.

Yes he is.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

 

[n_huffhines]

We can agree to disagree. I wonder if communist countries think freedom of speech is a low bar?

You're setting the bar low again.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It’s not just “a flag and a song “. It’s an idea and a concept about something much bigger than any one of us. You know that.

Is the flag or the anthem bigger than the Constitution? That idea and concept has its foundation on that.

 

[n_huffhines]

Lee Greenwood is a Patriot. Take some notes Huff.

I think I'm a patriot too. Patriotism is championing your community. Nationalism is championing your country. I am proud to be American in the communal sense. I am proud of and thankful for the sacrifices of others who ensured our freedom. I like all of Lee Greenwood's song.

I just don't like everything the flag represents. That is all.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

And the concepts behind those two symbols is what gives you the right to say that.

See, you don't even know or understand the origins of our freedoms. They are inalienable rights. They are not granted to us by a soldier, a politician or a judge. In fact, they are the ones that can limit our rights. And they sure as hell are not granted to us by a song or a flag.

Damn, you don't even do this Anerica s^^t right.

 

[Christian Lowe]

Every single player should sit. White, black, and other.


You're showing your whiteness.

I still can’t believe people over the age of 18 say things like this seriously.

 

[HammondB3Vol]

See, you don't even know or understand the origins of our freedoms. They are inalienable rights. They are not granted to us by a soldier, a politician or a judge. In fact, they are the ones that can limit our rights. And they sure as hell are not granted to us by a song or a flag.

Damn, you don't even do this Anerica s^^t right.

Oh I understand where my rights come from, God. The flag and the song are symbols. Calm down.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Oh I understand where my rights come from, God. The flag and the song are symbols. Calm down.

Thank you for acknowledging they are only symbols. So that means jack s^^t...

 

[Devo182]

Lmfao people are so thirsty. Guy literally got settled and sat for 9 seconds, then stood.

Gotta pledge full allegiance, full time, or else(!) we aren't all good followers of the comraderie, such as our good nationalist facscists are(!) So suspect

 

[Devo182]

See, you don't even know or understand the origins of our freedoms. They are inalienable rights. They are not granted to us by a soldier, a politician or a judge. In fact, they are the ones that can limit our rights. And they sure as hell are not granted to us by a song or a flag.

Damn, you don't even do this Anerica s^^t right.

"Inalienable" is not real. Clearly.

They are (highly) prioritized rights. Often conflicting and to be sorted and merged...in the real world in which they actually operate. They are not absolute. They couldn't function together as such.

Agree they are not granted...though de facto property as a right is very arguable.

And though feeling natural, as we perceive these as adults...existence precedes essence. You exist, then devise these comforts. From birth you do not have liberty. You are a prisoner of those bringing you up. You do not own or gain property. Life is the only certainty and even that almost feels like a circular statement, since existence is required..("my existence requires my right to exist").

 

[hog88]

Oh I understand where my rights come from, God. The flag and the song are symbols. Calm down.

Didn’t G^d say something about worshiping symbols?

 

[hog88]

"Inalienable" is not real. Clearly.

They are (highly) prioritized rights. Often conflicting and to be sorted and merged...in the real world in which they actually operate. They are not absolute. They couldn't function together as such.

Agree they are not granted...though de facto property as a right is very arguable.

This is some of the dumbest crap I‘ve seen posted in here.

 

[Devo182]

This is some of the dumbest crap I‘ve seen posted in here.

So you actually believe liberty is inalienable? It cannot be taken away?

Lol.

It's a nice narrative built up by wealthy landowners and it sounds neatly packaged and cute. Especially the property part. Then one thinks of the slaves and goes

 

[Orangeburst]

I just don't get it. Vilifying people who protest a protest action that they support.