The Thread Where People Argue About Kneeling in the NFL (merged)

#7,301
#7,301
hog88 said:
To me patriotism has nothing to do with loyalty or fealty to a government, I actually believe being loyal, respectful or reverent to a government is the opposite of being a patriot. Being simple and short, to me patriotism is the respect and willingness to defend individual liberty and freedom from the government (majority).
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Patriotism is being loyal to and supportive of your country. Period.

Why would MAGA support a man who is more loyal to a war criminal and enemy of American and our democratic values than he is to our country?
 
#7,302
#7,302
DinkinFlicka said:
Aside from it being common knowledge for anyone who's spent enough time outside their living room, here's a pamphlet for you.

Countries with Freedom of Speech 2024

worldpopulationreview.com worldpopulationreview.com
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I’m sorry but how can a country where “hate speech” insulting a religion is punishable by prison be ranked #5 on free speech? Your list is crap.

 
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#7,304
#7,304
hog88 said:
To me patriotism has nothing to do with loyalty or fealty to a government, I actually believe being loyal, respectful or reverent to a government is the opposite of being a patriot. Being simple and short, to me patriotism is the respect and willingness to defend individual liberty and freedom from the government (majority).
Click to expand...
I'm sure you would agree protesting is one of the purest forms of patriotism
 
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#7,305
#7,305
hog88 said:
I’m sorry but how can a country where “hate speech” insulting a religion is punishable by prison be ranked #5 on free speech? Your list is crap.

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They give you hints. Like I said earlier, when we think of speech, we don't even consider stuff like copyright or saying words like "bong" in a store.

Screenshot_20231218-065616_Chrome.jpg
 
#7,307
#7,307
n_huffhines said:
They give you hints. Like I said earlier, when we think of speech, we don't even consider stuff like copyright or saying words like "bong" in a store.

View attachment 603066
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I always laugh when people bring up the "yelling fire in a theater" example of limits on speech. Just like your hands, you cannot use speech to harm others.

Yes, there are limits on speech in this country, our arcane laws on obscenity is a great example but most if not all of the countries listed above us also have similar or even more stringent obscenity laws.
 
#7,308
#7,308
hog88 said:
I always laugh when people bring up the "yelling fire in a theater" example of limits on speech. Just like your hands, you cannot use speech to harm others.

Yes, there are limits on speech in this country, our arcane laws on obscenity is a great example but most if not all of the countries listed above us also have similar or even more stringent obscenity laws.
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I just don't know enough about the laws in those countries or our own honestly. I think you are probably right that we are pretty well protected from direct government retribution but we're not very well protected from civil court consequences.

The Rolling Stones "borrowed" a component of an old blues/folk song to make The Last Time and copyrighted it. Then along came The Verve who borrowed a bit of the melody but completely gave it a face-lift to the point that nobody would notice it's borrowed. It was for their biggest hit Bittersweet Symphony. It doesn't sound anything like the Stones but the Stones were awarded royalties on it and sole songwriting credits. It's a ridiculous result and is a speech issue, even tho we may not think of it like that. Copyright law is completely out of control in the west.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Bitter Sweet Symphony - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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#7,309
#7,309
n_huffhines said:
I just don't know enough about the laws in those countries or our own honestly. I think you are probably right that we are pretty well protected from direct government retribution but we're not very well protected from civil court consequences.

The Rolling Stones "borrowed" a component of an old blues/folk song to make The Last Time and copyrighted it. Then along came The Verve who borrowed a bit of the melody but completely gave it a face-lift to the point that nobody would notice it's borrowed. It was for their biggest hit Bittersweet Symphony. It doesn't sound anything like the Stones but the Stones were awarded royalties on it and sole songwriting credits. It's a ridiculous result and is a speech issue, even tho we may not think of it like that. Copyright law is completely out of control in the west.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Bitter Sweet Symphony - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
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I agree that our copyright and patent laws are in serious need of reform.
 
#7,310
#7,310
hog88 said:
I’m sorry but how can a country where “hate speech” insulting a religion is punishable by prison be ranked #5 on free speech? Your list is crap.

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Lol, it's crap despite its detailed explanations as to how it churns out the numbers.

You simply have a different definition of free speech that better suits your romanticized view of 'Murica.

Criminally speaking, I guess we're more protected than most, but our civil justice system is pretty ****ed in those terms. It may be harder to lamd prison time for words here, but this country sure has ways of running you into the poor house with copyright, libel, and slander laws.
 
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#7,311
DinkinFlicka said:
Lol, it's crap despite its detailed explanations as to how it churns out the numbers.

You simply have a different definition of free speech that better suits your romanticized view of 'Murica.

Criminally speaking, I guess we're more protected than most, but our civil justice system is pretty ****ed in those terms. It may be harder to lamd prison time for words here, but this country sure has ways of running you into the poor house with copyright, libel, and slander laws.
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You're link was an opinion poll, nothing scientific about it. Hence it is crap.

Yes, I agree we need serious reforms in copyright. libel and slander laws but so do almost every country listed higher than us in your link. I'll put it in simple terms so that you can understand, if a government can criminally fine or imprison you for non harmful speech you do not enjoy freedom of speech.
 
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#7,312
#7,312
hog88 said:
You're link was an opinion poll, nothing scientific about it. Hence it is crap.

Yes, I agree we need serious reforms in copyright. libel and slander laws but so do almost every country listed higher than us in your link. I'll put it in simple terms so that you can understand, if a government can criminally fine or imprison you for non harmful speech you do not enjoy freedom of speech.
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Opinions of several versus hog's incredible worldly experience 🤣🤣🤣

If a judicial system, even in the civil circuit, can make you pay restitution for slander or hate speech, what's the difference?
 
#7,313
#7,313
DinkinFlicka said:
Opinions of several versus hog's incredible worldly experience 🤣🤣🤣

If a judicial system, even in the civil circuit, can make you pay restitution for slander or hate speech, what's the difference?
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What country ranked higher do not have slander laws?
 
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#7,314
I forgot that hog gets his man peach in a jam when you wipe your ass with the shortcomings of our constititution.
 
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#7,319
#7,319
BernardKingGOAT said:
Both. As people, we elect people to govern for us
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True but the problem is we have allowed the people we elected to appoint bureaucrats that actually run the government annd are accountable to no one. So loyalty to government is IMO not a prerequisite for patriotism.
 
#7,320
#7,320
hog88 said:
True but the problem is we have allowed the people we elected to appoint bureaucrats that actually run the government annd are accountable to no one. So loyalty to government is IMO not a prerequisite for patriotism.
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Yes, I agree. Even more so, the people we have elected have decided to govern, ideologically and tribally, rather than pragmatically, refusing to compromise for the benefit of the people who elected them
 
#7,321
#7,321
DinkinFlicka said:
What stats or links can you provide to disprove mine?

The notion that our first amendment is the strongest of its kind is a bit whimsical.
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Look at how the Canadian gov. treated their COVID protesters, the French their yellow vests, and the British, French, and Germans their pro-Palestinian protesters recently.
 
#7,322
#7,322
turbovol said:
Patriotism is being loyal to and supportive of your country. Period.

Why would MAGA support a man who is more loyal to a war criminal and enemy of American and our democratic values than he is to our country?
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That's in itself is not patriotism, it's blind nationalism. It's how dictators get and keep power. Patriotism is also wanting and doing what's in the best interests of the country's people.
 
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#7,325
#7,325
It happened a bunch in this thread and forum where people said, "Go woke, go broke," or took some similar position on sports. They would point to TV ratings and say these businesses were dying because of the displays of left-wing political behavior.

On several occasions, I explained the new reality of TV and that traditional TV ratings don't tell the story anymore. A few times, to illustrate the point, I guaranteed that the next NBA TV contract would be even bigger than the current one. Some people were arguing that ESPN was force-feeding us the NBA because they were stuck with a sunk cost.

I must've made this point half a dozen times and I don't think anybody ever accepted it. I think people think I just blow smoke on stuff like this. I don't make guarantees unless I'm really certain.

Looks like the new TV deal will be 2.5x bigger than the last one. $76B!! And guess who's back in on the deal? ESPN, of course.
 
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