The Thread Where People Argue About Kneeling in the NFL (merged)

[Forever151]

I can't wait to see the stupid ass fans start burning Vol gear over a few players probably from the hood who have had to deal with social injustice in there life taking a knee to support something important to them ... it's ok tho who cares about there issues it doesn't effect u ... right

 

[BearCat204]

That brings up an interesting point.

If nobody did care, would you still see players taking knees and teams staying in the locker room?

I mean that's the point of a protest isn't it? Do something that you know will get the attention of everyone.

 

[Air_Force_Vol27]

I know at least half the fans don't stand most of the time it is played. I have always wonderer why the anthem is played at sporting events but almost no where else there is an entertainment venue going on. I do stand but I respect the Ist amendment and do not require anyone else to do it if they don't want to. There are people that hate this country that stand up for it everytime it is played and vice versa.

Hell most are getting food and drinks and pissing and wearing American flags on their clothes which according to the rules for the flag is disrespecting it.

 

[Ten_Titans]

Sounds good to me.

My point is we should respect one another's right to express ourselves. I would never try to demean you for choosing to salute the flag. Similarly you shouldn't demean someone who chooses to not salute the flag for whatever reason (politically motivated or not).

The problem with this entire issue is the people who feel like saluting the flag should be a REQUIREMENT rather than a choice.

Absolutely no one has said that.

Getting mad at players kneeling doesn't somehow imply they should be required to stand.

It's worth noting that if the NFL did make them stand, it wouldn't be a violation of their right to do so.

 

[Forever151]

I mean that's the point of a protest isn't it? Do something that you know will get the attention of everyone.

They would have to take a knee in the end zone after scoring a touchdown

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Most of the folks opposed to the anthem protests aren't being blindly loyal to the country. They're simply offended that these athletes chose that avenue to make a stand.

Personally, it was Kap's original anti-police stance that was the most offensive, given it's roots in false racist narratives.

Most of the recent stuff I think has more to do with the NFL trying to defend itself from Trump than Kap's deal. There are a lot of good guys kneeling now that probably do have a better message to share than anything Kap protested. Hopefully they can work to unify people rather than divide.

That's your opinion. To most black people, Kaepernick's stance is not rooted in false racial narratives. I'm guessing you are probably not black. Just because you don't have the same experiences with law enforcement that many black people have doesn't mean those issues don't exist.

Once again I can respect your opinion. Why do you find it hard not to respect the opinions of those that disagree with you. Colin Kaepernick and many of those supporting him believe police brutality against black people in America is a serious problem. They have a right to believe that and express their opinions.

 

[NCFisher]

Who else would it be that pushes back, if not The People? Of course, you have should keep the government in check, who is saying otherwise?
I am having a hard time understanding what point you are making.

How's that to occur if "Nobody has to support free speech"?

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Sounds good to me.

My point is we should respect one another's right to express ourselves. I would never try to demean you for choosing to salute the flag. Similarly you shouldn't demean someone who chooses to not salute the flag for whatever reason (politically motivated or not).

The problem with this entire issue is the people who feel like saluting the flag should be a REQUIREMENT rather than a choice.

I never demeaned anyone. You came up with that on your own. Check my previous posts. I have an opinion but also respect the opinions of others as well.

 

[BeecherVol]

I mean that's the point of a protest isn't it? Do something that you know will get the attention of everyone.

That was my next question.

And when you get that attention, should you not expect some to not only disagree with your stance or message but also the stage or situation in which you use to garner that attention?

Im puzzled at how you shouldn't care about the method, but you should care about the message. Which in this case is lost IMO.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

You can do what ever the hell you want, but there are consequences for your actions. Be prepared to pay the penalty. My dad was a Vietnam marine. Died when I was 3. My step father was a navy man, my grandfather was air force. They fought so we had the freedom to peaceful protest. People these days just don't have any concept of "just because you can doesn't mean you should". The've been raised on rap videos so they can do what ever the hell they want without consequence and they deserve everything because they are special right? What ever. It gets them attention so they keep doing it... just like the white supremisists. It's all extremes all the time in this country. No middle ground. If you don't empower it, it will go away. But, you keep letting the press motivate you. They whisper things in your ear like little devils and you obey.

 

[volfan102455]

That brings up an interesting point.

If nobody did care, would you still see players taking knees and teams staying in the locker room?

You wouldn't.

The thing is that this is NOT drawing attention to whatever it was they were trying to draw attention too. Rather it has created a bigger divide and resulted with backlash from folks that may have supported them on the real concern.

 

[MajorJohnny]

i wanna say so many things on this subject.......

but ill leave it at this
every individual in the united states has the right to peacefully protest anything they want, its is their right to choose when and how to do it. Most folks dont even understand the true meaning behind why the players are doing this or the social injustices many of our favorite players and athletes/family members face while growing up or still ona daily basis.....let it go and get over urself, if you wanna take off ur hat and hold ur hand over you heart do it, if u wanna leave ur hat on, fine, if u wanna take a knee cool, hold hands awesome...let it go, if your griping about this, you prolly honestly dont even understand what they are doing it for....focus on your self and your life and maybe some education on the matters at hand, it was never about the flag.....and it isnt now...

So you don't think a group of millionaires couldn't do something more productive to help out on all of these so-called social injustices?

This is nothing more than the same as all the other clowns marching in the street and burning their own neighborhoods down. If they really had a legit basis for their protest, there are a thousand other ways to make a difference. Yea they have the right to do it, same I have the right to not agree with it.

I mean seriously, Ray Lewis protesting all the social injustices that have happened to him and his family? Give me a break...

 

[Smokey'sHandler]

Then when their employer starts losing $$"s because folks don't go to games, watch TV, buy the shirts, et al, I can guarantee their employer will change their mind or go out of business or pay their employees less.

We already saw this with the Sunday Night game. The Raiders wanted to stay in the locker room for the anthem but due to scheduling and the coin toss. If they would have stayed in the locker room they would have forfeited the coin toss. If a precious coin toss is going to take them away from something that is supposedly real emotional due to disrespect then the almighty dollar will crush it.

This right here shows the events this past weekend to be just a fad thing that has nothing to do with the original protest.

 

[Ten_Titans]

are people really that offended because they are kneeling for the flag? I just wish people understand or at least try to understand why these players are taking a knee...they have a right to do it..these players are speaking up for people like me..hell I don't have a voice who cares what I say,but these players take a knee for people like me that don't have a voice..

They aren't speaking up at all. No one, including yourself, has any idea what this protest is attempting to achieve. Only national protest I've ever seen that has no demands.

 

[Wafflestomper]

Absolutely no one has said that.

Getting mad at players kneeling doesn't somehow imply they should be required to stand.

It's worth noting that if the NFL did make them stand, it wouldn't be a violation of their right to do so.

The President and Attorney General are lobbying the NFL to make it a requirement, but I guess that qualifies as nobody.

 

[99volfan]

Please merge in the politics forum

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

are people really that offended because they are kneeling for the flag? I just wish people understand or at least try to understand why these players are taking a knee...they have a right to do it..these players are speaking up for people like me..hell I don't have a voice who cares what I say,but these players take a knee for people like me that don't have a voice..

Oh they know why these players are protesting. They are simply deflecting from the issue at hand cause its easier to pretend this is about the flag, the military, and patriotism when it's really about racial oppression. They don't want to discuss the issue of racism in this country cause they know it's a problem.

Every white person in America knows it's better to be white in America than it is to be black. They all know it even if they might never admit it.

 

[BearCat204]

That was my next question.

And when you get that attention, should you not expect some to not only disagree with your stance or message but also the stage or situation in which you use to garner that attention?

Im puzzled at how you shouldn't care about the method, but you should care about the message. Which in this case is lost IMO.

I don't know Beech and honestly I am confused on what they are protesting and what they want done exactly. Not arguing that and really I don't like the way they are protesting, but I recognize they have the right to do so and I guess it doesn't physically hurt me the way it does some. I have fought, sacrificed, and lost a lot defending that flag and I don't tell you that to brag or wish for a pat on the back, but to put in perspective that I know what I was defending and what it represents. And a simple right such as freedom of speech is one of those things that it represents.

 

[Vol Main]

are people really that offended because they are kneeling for the flag? I just wish people understand or at least try to understand why these players are taking a knee...they have a right to do it..these players are speaking up for people like me..hell I don't have a voice who cares what I say,but these players take a knee for people like me that don't have a voice..

There are numerous organizations which protest police misconduct against Black victims. One thing which troubles me about the kneeling is that the national discussion does not even include White victims. The kneelers are doing the same thing they are protesting against, saying with their silence that they either do not know about White victims or do not care. I wish something good would come of the protests, but see no indications yet. Personally, I love "The Star Spangled Banner."

 

[BearCat204]

Oh they know why these players are protesting. They are simply deflecting from the issue at hand cause its easier to pretend this is about the flag, the military, and patriotism when it's really about racial oppression. They don't want to discuss the issue of racism in this country cause they know it's a problem.

Every white person in America knows it's better to be white in America than it is to be black. They all know it even if they might never admit it.

Oh really.......what exactly are they protesting and be specific and not this "racial equality" line, because they way our laws are in this country, everyone has the same basic rights. What are they protesting and what exactly do they want done?

 

[BearCat204]

There are numerous organizations which protest police misconduct against Black victims. One thing which troubles me about the kneeling is that the national discussion does not even include White victims. The kneelers are doing the same thing they are protesting against, saying with their silence that they either do not know about White victims or do not care. I wish something good would come of the protests, but see no indications yet. Personally, I love "The Star Spangled Banner."

White people cant be victims and definitely cant be victims of racism........I've been told this over and over.

 

[Mick]

Colton Jumper has confirmed he plans to kneel before the game, roll around on the field during, and eat pancakes after.

 

[Ten_Titans]

The President and Attorney General are lobbying the NFL to make it a requirement, but I guess that qualifies as nobody.

Lobbying is a strong word. If you don't get Trump's shtick at this point, you probably never will.

The guy failed to recall one of the least popular laws of the last century. I think you can breath easy.

Like I said, the NFL requiring players to stand is not a violation of the first amendment. Trump saying they should do that is Trump spouting off as Trump, not as the president. Innapropriate, but not someone threatening to write out the first amendment if you've ever heard the man talk.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Oh really.......what exactly are they protesting and be specific and not this "racial equality" line, because they way our laws are in this country, everyone has the same basic rights. What are they protesting and what exactly do they want done?

Kaepernick was pretty clear. He is protesting the flag because the police force of this country is killing unarmed black men and are not being punished for it. The solution is actually holding police officers like that lady in Tulsa, Oklahoma that shot that unarmed black man with his hands raised on film. That was an unjustified killing and that officer was found not guilty. That is what people are fed up with.

I don't think this is very hard to understand.

 

[BeecherVol]

I don't know Beech and honestly I am confused on what they are protesting and what they want done exactly. Not arguing that and really I don't like the way they are protesting, but I recognize they have the right to do so and I guess it doesn't physically hurt me the way it does some. I have fought, sacrificed, and lost a lot defending that flag and I don't tell you that to brag or wish for a pat on the back, but to put in perspective that I know what I was defending and what it represents. And a simple right such as freedom of speech is one of those things that it represents.

I totally agree.
I come from a military family and still have 2 cousins serving.
Its not a "free speech" issue to me. In this case, if their employer (owners) are fine with their approach (which in this case is while they re on the clock) then its on them to make that decision.

Im for their right to express themselves according to the above. Im not sure why people are surprised or expect there not to be a negative reaction to this given the stage of choice.