The Thread Where We Debate About Healthcare in America

#601
#601
OHvol40 said:
Most of the people who provide that care and literally the entire rest of the developed world disagree.
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False. No doctor is willing to continuously work for low rates while being told which patients they can see and what they have to do with them. Ask a doctor or nurse about Press Ganey now and see how much they love it
 
#602
#602
Rickyvol77 said:
Yea and it didn’t mean pay half your income to Get substandard medical care for people who already don’t pay taxes and cost more due to their poor decision making
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I don’t think anyone suggests paying half your income, and it’s been proven in tons of studies (and in literally case studies of the rest of the developed countries on the globe) that the tax for universal healthcare would be miles less than the combined cost we pay now.
 
#603
#603
Rickyvol77 said:
I already stated this earlier in the thread

-340 million people not 2 million
-some people live in poverty
-drug use more common
-smoking more common
-poor diet choices mostly due to we can literally have anything we want at any time
-obesity/diabetes/high blood pressure rates
-more gang violence on average
-high rates of mentally ill and people on psych meds
-high rate of MVAs due to personal cars
-more diversity which skews average rates for black/Hispanics
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Study: Universal Health Care in US Will Save Money
 
#604
#604
Rickyvol77 said:
False. No doctor is willing to continuously work for low rates while being told which patients they can see and what they have to do with them. Ask a doctor or nurse about Press Ganey now and see how much they love it
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I’m an advanced practice provider. Maybe you should ask some.
 
#606
#606
#608
#608
OHvol40 said:
Then why are Americans unhealthy comparatively, in your opinion? Are we dumber? Do we lack willpower? Are millions of Americans just not-that-great to a person compared to Europeans?
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Yes to most of the above in degrees.

Personally I didnt see the slide. My friends still dont believe I weighed that much, I didnt look like an Offensive lineman. So my excuse was ignorance, which falls under dumb. I dont know why it took me to trying on a size 48 to realize I needed to check my weight. But it did.

Most are simply unwilling to make changes or anything that looks like a sacrifice. Because it's hard, what they dont realize is that it's hard at first and gets easier generally to the point where you enjoy it. Most try something for about 2 weeks, dont see immediate results and give up. You didnt mess yourself up in 2 weeks, why would you be able to fix yourself in two weeks.

I am a gamer, I know more than my share of basement dwellers. There is a not uncommon stance to wait until the problem gets bad enough where they just fix it with a surgery instead of avoiding the issue. It's just easier, why fix it yourself when someone else will do it for you.

IMO it's too much of the PC culture and security blankets. We have made it taboo to take care of yourself and to expect personal responsibility. It's no wonder people fail in the scenario where we have made safety nets the way of life instead of encouraging the better/healthier options. What should be the literal ladt option is now often the only option people take.

And this is not a health care specific issue. It goes for money, human interactions, etc. Its taboo to try and fix the issue, better to ignore until someone else fixes it.
 
#610
#610
OHvol40 said:
The world disagrees with you, and so do most healthcare providers.
Majority of Healthcare Professionals Back Single-Payer System
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Why do you disagree? It's a simple question, should the government force people to provide services/goods to those that can't pay? If you say yes for critical things like healthcare then why not food and shelter? Food is without question essential to life, more-so than most health services rendered at the average emergency room.
 
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#611
#611
hog88 said:
Why do you disagree? It's a simple question, should the government force people to provide services/goods to those that can't pay? If you say yes for critical things like healthcare then why not food and shelter? Food is without question essential to life, more-so than most health services rendered at the average emergency room.
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The point is people want to provide care. We take oaths to do just that. Do you think it’s moral to profit from illness?
 
#613
#613
OHvol40 said:
Study: Universal Health Care in US Will Save Money
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Article doesnt discuss or link to how these proposals would actually save money.

And from most of what I have seen on the links used elsewhere it all starts with the assumption that we are jumping straight into a European model, or adjusted one, that is already a success. With no growing pains or worked out adjustments based on demogrpahic math.
 
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#614
#614
Rickyvol77 said:
You are doing it. You tell us?
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I make money because I provide a skilled essential service and I already stated I may even take a hit to my pay with universal care, that doesn’t address the morality of non-healthcare employees and corporations profiting from illness. CEOs making $18,000,000 yearly bonuses on the backs of sick people is immoral.
 
#615
#615
LouderVol said:
Article doesnt discuss or link to how these proposals would actually save money.

And from most of what I have seen on the links used elsewhere it all starts with the assumption that we are jumping straight into a European model, or adjusted one, that is already a success. With no growing pains or worked out adjustments based on demogrpahic math.
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Well no kidding, if you want it to be successful you have to actually jump in and do it. Half measures aren’t going to effective in this space.
 
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#616
#616
OHvol40 said:
I make money because I provide a skilled essential service and I already stated I may even take a hit to my pay with universal care, that doesn’t address the morality of non-healthcare employees and corporations profiting from illness. CEOs making $18,000,000 yearly bonuses on the backs of sick people is immoral.
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They are getting bonuses because of sick people? Like it's part of the requirement for the bonus?
 
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#620
#620
OHvol40 said:
We no kidding, if you want it to be successful you have to actually jump in and do it. Half measures aren’t going to effective in this space.
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So we should ignore all the math that says it doesnt work like promised (higher taxes and increasing costs) and just jump in because a couple of projections say it will work. Well why not? ACA went over SOooo well surely scaling it up wont introduce any new issues? And no way the government overpromises in order to sell something to us right.....right?

The way I always like to look at is, imagine the worst president you have known, would you want him running your healthcare? Because that is what you are asking for. Dont worry he somehow knows who best to appoint because he won a weighted popularity contest.
 
#621
#621
OHvol40 said:
The point is people want to provide care. We take oaths to do just that. Do you think it’s moral to profit from illness?
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I have no qualms about people choosing to donate their labor, I think it's admirable. I have serious problems with the government forcing people to donate their labor, that is slavery.

Yes, I find nothing immoral about people profiting from their education, skill and labor.
 
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#623
#623
hog88 said:
I have no qualms about people choosing to donate their labor, I think it's admirable. I have serious problems with the government forcing people to donate their labor, that is slavery.

Yes, I find nothing immoral about people profiting from their education, skill and labor.
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Then we have different moral standards and cannot agree on this.
 
#624
#624
LouderVol said:
No way they take it. USPS went under with federal subsidies. No way for them to make the current method work.

At best your looking at some type of "PO Box" only where you have to go to them, or delivery is only once a week or so. And costs will still go up.
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Costs have to go up for home mail delivery whether there is ever any restructuring or not. Arguable if the current daily service can or should continue but i don’t think everyone is going to get a PO Box or be able to abide with only once a week mail delivery.
 
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