The twilight days of Pax Americana and its coming fall

#103
#103
hog88 said:
We should be judging our military on lethality.
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I'm pretty sure that our current military could kill every man, woman and child (as well as all the other genders) on the earth 20 times over with the military hardware we currently have. If we could leave $80 Billion worth of military hardware in Afghanistan and it not affect our readiness, we probably don't need anymore.
 
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#104
#104
VolStrom said:
I'm pretty sure that our current military could kill every man, woman and child (as well as all the other genders) on the earth 20 times over with the military hardware we currently have. If we could leave $80 Billion worth of military hardware in Afghanistan and it not affect our readiness, we probably don't need anymore.
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A rare excellent point from you.

:p
 
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#106
#106
hog88 said:
Agreed. I think we could have the most lethal military on earth for much less than it costs now.
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Do you nominate Texas and Texans as test subjects to evaluate future lethal options?
 
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#109
#109
I guess what I am so poorly saying is if the military and really the politicians stopped the social engineering BS and the rewarding of defense contractors we could cut costs massively and improve our war-fighting capability.
 
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#110
#110
hog88 said:
I guess what I am so poorly saying is if the military and really the politicians stopped the social engineering BS and the rewarding of defense contractors we could cut costs massively and improve our war-fighting capability.
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Have you ever dealt with the government? They don't do a damned thing that doesn't take 3 times as long and cost 4 times as much as private business can do it.
 
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#112
#112
McDad said:
What was this post responding to, specifically?
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Just saying what are u going to cut? Operations probably not, certainly not personnel as we have probably the smallest number of personnel since pre WW2, Some bases sure, cut procurement by a few dozen billions and other than try and get some efficiency, which is laughable, just not sure where else to cut.

And with China emerging I would not cut anything at this moment. Peace thru Strength
 
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#113
#113
Orangeburst said:
Just saying what are u going to cut? Operations probably not, certainly not personnel as we have probably the smallest number of personnel since pre WW2, Some bases sure, cut procurement by a few dozen billions and other than try and get some efficiency, which is laughable, just not sure where else to cut.

And with China emerging I would not cut anything at this moment. Peace thru Strength
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I'd cut everything. Drastic troop reductions. If war is declared, volunteers will join. If insufficient, reinstate the draft.
We don't need stockpiles of equipment, vehicles, machinery. We need enough to stave off a war until production is ramped.

America survived for decades without the requirement of a large military, mobilized, standing, and ready.
 
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#114
#114
McDad said:
I'd cut everything. Drastic troop reductions. If war is declared, volunteers will join. If insufficient, reinstate the draft.
We don't need stockpiles of equipment, vehicles, machinery. We need enough to stave off a war until production is ramped.

America survived for decades without the requirement of a large military, mobilized, standing, and ready.
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We are incapable of ramping up production enough to fight a major war. We also don't need massive troop reductions, some yes but what we need is to get rid of most of the REMFs and keep the number of actual war fighters high. We couldn't fill the ranks with volunteers or draftees quick enough to fight a peer to peer war.

We survived for decades without a large standing or well trained/equipped military because the technology to hit us quickly wasn't around.
 
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#115
#115
McDad said:
I'd cut everything. Drastic troop reductions. If war is declared, volunteers will join. If insufficient, reinstate the draft.
We don't need stockpiles of equipment, vehicles, machinery. We need enough to stave off a war until production is ramped.

America survived for decades without the requirement of a large military, mobilized, standing, and ready.
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But a BIG war would be very quick IMO..Hyper war. Won't be no time to ramp when the lights go out.
And conscription would probably be a good idea. and definitely be supplemental anyways..but the time to ramp and train such as during WW2 would not be available IMO.

I get what y'all are saying though. We certainly are headed towards a hollowed out military sans the USSR if we don't get our fiscal house in order. Like I said we could rely on just nuclear deterrence aka Russia, but vital shipping lanes and allies would probably go under. Imagine just if SK and Japan went under.


I am just a big believer in Regans PTS motto. The price of war even if we are not directly involved would be much more than the cost of strength
 
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#116
#116
hog88 said:
We are incapable of ramping up production enough to fight a major war. We also don't need massive troop reductions, some yes but what we need is to get rid of most of the REMFs and keep the number of actual war fighters high. We couldn't fill the ranks with volunteers or draftees quick enough to fight a peer to peer war.

We survived for decades without a large standing or well trained/equipped military because the technology to hit us quickly wasn't around.
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My feelings as well. I got hogged.
 
#117
#117
hog88 said:
We are incapable of ramping up production enough to fight a major war. We also don't need massive troop reductions, some yes but what we need is to get rid of most of the REMFs and keep the number of actual war fighters high. We couldn't fill the ranks with volunteers or draftees quick enough to fight a peer to peer war.

We survived for decades without a large standing or well trained/equipped military because the technology to hit us quickly wasn't around.
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Times have changed. But if someone wants to hit us with long reach tech, no amount of troops will fix that.
We can and will fill boots and mechanical needs if we must. Did it in WW2. Can do it tomorrow if absolutely necessary.
 
#118
#118
Orangeburst said:
am just a big believer in Regans PTS motto. The price of war even if we are not directly involved would be much more than the cost of strength
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I used to believe same.

We are not a sitting duck waiting to be subjugated. Our geography, our bordering neighbors, and the massive oceans are our best deterrents against attack.
 
#119
#119
McDad said:
Times have changed. But if someone wants to hit us with long reach tech, no amount of troops will fix that.
We can and will fill boots and mechanical needs if we must. Did it in WW2. Can do it tomorrow if absolutely necessary.
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I don’t think we can fill the boots or the material needs. Also during WWII we sacrificed thousands of our boys lives sending them into battle without enough training.
 
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#120
#120
McDad said:
I used to believe same.

We are not a sitting duck waiting to be subjugated. Our geography, our bordering neighbors, and the massive oceans are our best deterrents against attack.
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That just seems such a historical reference that is not as applicable today.
There is a reason the chip producers are starting to shift away from Taiwan and gonna take years. There is no ramping up anything without chips, our pharmaceuticals would be decimated, etc.
We passed the threshold of self reliance with global commerce a long time ago.

If Japan went under, we would wither on the vine.
If Hunter Biden and such of the world go to Ukraine off all places to extract fuel, we would simply be along for the ride if we lose preeminence
 
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#121
#121
hog88 said:
I don’t think we can fill the boots or the material needs. Also during WWII we sacrificed thousands of our boys lives sending them into battle without enough training.
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I remember seeing those training videos with wooden guns and cars representing armor. Frankly I thought FDR failed our nation big time knowing war was imminent for many years.
 
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#122
#122
Orangeburst said:
I remember seeing those training videos with wooden guns and cars representing armor. Frankly I thought FDR failed our nation big time knowing war was imminent for many years.
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if China were to cut off Taiwan we’d be screwed. We couldn’t produce enough computer chips to ramp up for a peer to peer war. Hell we couldn’t produce the steel we’d need nor do we have the refining capacity.
 
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#123
#123
hog88 said:
if China were to cut off Taiwan we’d be screwed. We couldn’t produce enough computer chips to ramp up for a peer to peer war. Hell we couldn’t produce the steel we’d need nor do we have the refining capacity.
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And who's fault is that?
 
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#125
#125
hog88 said:
I don’t think we can fill the boots or the material needs. Also during WWII we sacrificed thousands of our boys lives sending them into battle without enough training.
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War is Hell.
 
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