The Walking Dead

[VolsSportsFan]

This is a completely pointless argument. 3 episodes less would not have made this season any better than it was. It would have taken "some" fluff out but we still would have been left with 8 uninteresting episodes and 5 good ones.
The problem with this show is that it got away from it's small core group and added a bunch of other characters, most of which none of us care about. I get that these things played out in the comics but it seriously could have been handled much better than this. They could have told the story without diluting what made the show really good. With their writing they took the life out of the greatest characters the show has had since the beginning and they drug it out far too long. They crippled Morgan, and Carol, Daryl you pretty much hardly ever see him really do anything anymore. I don't blame that on him, I blame that on the writers. Let's be real, other than helping out in that finale Carol literally did nothing for an entire season. That's a complete waste of a great character and a resource.

It's not a pointless argument at all. Why do you think that the most acclaimed shows on TV have at most 13 episodes a season? You can't seriously tell me if they had less episodes it wouldn't force them to trim the fat and get to the point quicker.

Why do you think they drug out Carol and Morgan's midlife crisis'? Why they drug out mopey Daryl? Why we get entire episodes of just Tara? Because they have to drag it out to fill 16 episodes. With 10-13, they would be forced to either cut some of that or be like GoT and show more development each episode.

It's pretty obvious to me that they stretch things out to try and fill 16 episodes and part of why they've gotten this way is because they were given 16 episodes to work with.

 

[Stoked]

What kills me is shows like GoT who has enough charters and way better writers could do 16 episodes a season and it wouldn't get stale, but shows like TWD where they have only a few characters worth a damn get 16 episode seasons. Yes they split them up into twice a year, but still that's too many episodes. I think they should do 6 episodes and split them up.

If a show like GoT can do 10 shows per seasons with all the material that they have, then so can TWD. GoT shows you multiply story lines per episode. At the end of each episode I'm usually left with a "man I want to know more about that character, I'm intrigued feeling". At the end of a 90 min Morgan only episode, I'm like "I hope I never see Morgan again" lol.

 

[Lurkerin]

I wouldn't be surprised if Gimple took this route and then touted it as something brand new that they have never done.

That being said I will still watch every episode.

 

[BenGrimm]

It's not a pointless argument at all. Why do you think that the most acclaimed shows on TV have at most 13 episodes a season? You can't seriously tell me if they had less episodes it wouldn't force them to trim the fat and get to the point quicker.

Why do you think they drug out Carol and Morgan's midlife crisis'? Why they drug out mopey Daryl? Why we get entire episodes of just Tara? Because they have to drag it out to fill 16 episodes. With 10-13, they would be forced to either cut some of that or be like GoT and show more development each episode.

It's pretty obvious to me that they stretch things out to try and fill 16 episodes and part of why they've gotten this way is because they were given 16 episodes to work with.

I actually think this season did a better job of giving multiple character stories a little screen time in each episode. Particularly in the second half. (With a few exceptions.)

Carol was completely wasted this season though. They basically shelved her.

Morgan's story needed a few episodes to develop. They had to develop the Kingdom and the people he bonded with there to make his violent turn around make sense. Not going to complain about that.

Something to consider when comparing to an HBO show like GoT, they get an extra 10 minutes per episode and don't have to plot around commercial breaks.

Otherwise I do agree the show should go to 12ish episodes and limit the 90minute episodes to premiers or finales (and no more than 2 in a season). They won't do that though. Sort of like the pointless 12th CFB game to play an FCS team, it would hurt revenue to lose an episode. Also, I've heard there is a certain number of episodes per season required for syndication.

So for better or worse we are stuck with 16 episodes.

 

[bigdaddy]

Write him into what situation? It was clear Negan wanted him alive and told Janis not to kill him.

Must have missed that? Did he say as much

 

[BenGrimm]

Must have missed that? Did he say as much

It wasn't explicitly said but easily inferred from all the Negan scenes throughout the whole season. You said you only watched a few episodes so that's more on you than the writers.

Even still... She told him to get down. He refused. She purposely shot NOT to kill. Then marched him over to Negan who said he was going to kill Carl and take his hands as punishment leaving him alive. I don't think it needed to be spelled out that Negan said Rick was to be brought to him alive.

You could argue why not just kill Rick since he wasn't really keeping his people in line after 2 attempts on Negan's life and now a full scale insurrection.

There was certainly other things to question like, why didn't Michonne shoot her when she saw the gun pointed at Rick? How did the junk yard people Know how to disarm Rosita's bomb and do it without being noticed? How did the kingdom and hilltop both show up at the same time and appear to come in the back door? How did Shiva know to attack only Saviors?

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

The real Shiva

Negan doesn't know how to grip a baseball bat for max power...his elbow is out, he might not even kill Carl with that swing due to poor swing mechanics.

 

[chargervol]

There was certainly other things to question like, why didn't Michonne shoot her when she saw the gun pointed at Rick? How did the junk yard people Know how to disarm Rosita's bomb and do it without being noticed? How did the kingdom and hilltop both show up at the same time and appear to come in the back door? How did Shiva know to attack only Saviors?

1. Legitimate question.
Possibly scared of missing like she had earlier with oceanside.

2. If Alexandria has someone that knows explosives, wouldn't surprise me at all that someone from the junkyard would also.

3. The junkyard people found a way to be the last out or behind the Alexandria group in every situation, like the blonde with Michonne.

4. The most tv situation ever having both groups arrive at once. No worthy response other than " it's tv".

5. Shiva. We didn't get to see anything pre attack by the tiger. Could have been anything from a visual or verbal command to whomever threatened K.E. If if there was a scene shot, may have been edited.

The not killing Rick thing..
You are completely accurate, it was obvious throughout the season but definitely in this episode with attempting to kill Carl but only punish Rick.
At some point, you just have to give up trying to explain.

It really was extremely obvious.

 

[SWIL]

Negan doesn't know how to grip a baseball bat for max power...his elbow is out, he might not even kill Carl with that swing due to poor swing mechanics.

I saw this too - looks like a bunt transition

 

[Coug]

It's not a pointless argument at all. Why do you think that the most acclaimed shows on TV have at most 13 episodes a season? You can't seriously tell me if they had less episodes it wouldn't force them to trim the fat and get to the point quicker.

Why do you think they drug out Carol and Morgan's midlife crisis'? Why they drug out mopey Daryl? Why we get entire episodes of just Tara? Because they have to drag it out to fill 16 episodes. With 10-13, they would be forced to either cut some of that or be like GoT and show more development each episode.

It's pretty obvious to me that they stretch things out to try and fill 16 episodes and part of why they've gotten this way is because they were given 16 episodes to work with.

The problem is there is so much fat on TWD that even trimming down 3 we'd still get served fat.

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

I saw this too - looks like a bunt transition

So he was going to bunt Carl down the first base line?
Would have been a Sac Bunt if Shiva was aimed 15 degrees left

 

[VolsSportsFan]

The problem is there is so much fat on TWD that even trimming down 3 we'd still get served fat.

True, I agree with you that bad writing is bad writing. I just would rather them be forced to try to get things done in 13 rather than 16. I would hope even they would be able to figure out with 13 you can't have entire episodes of just one character trying to find themselves and all that.

 

[TheDeeble]

True, I agree with you that bad writing is bad writing. I just would rather them be forced to try to get things done in 13 rather than 16. I would hope even they would be able to figure out with 13 you can't have entire episodes of just one character trying to find themselves and all that.

Carol has been a waste this season. Carol wants to get away for a while. Ok. Don't spend multiple scenes on several episodes of Carol at her house reading a book or turning away food from the Kingdom. You could almost cut an entire episode if they didn't waste time on that. Not to mention they took one of the most enjoyable characters and made her boring.

Plus.......
The constant emotional sad music conversations get repetitive. Dialogue between characters is overdramatized. It reminds me more of corny soap opera drama than anything else.

 

[SWIL]

Anyone ever wonder why we don't nickel and dime other shows the way we do TWD?

 

[BenGrimm]

Anyone ever wonder why we don't nickel and dime other shows the way we do TWD?

I often wonder that because I still maintain the second season was one of the worst outside of a 4-5 episodes. Second half of season 3 was pretty weak as well. There was endless b&m about the journey to Terminus in season 4

The bar was never as high as some think.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Anyone ever wonder why we don't nickel and dime other shows the way we do TWD?

The same reason we nickel and dime Marvel movies and shows, DC movies and shows, Star Wars, etc; because it is very popular, a huge franchise, and it's in the realm of nerd-dom.

It's actually kind of good that it gets nitpicked. I get it gets annoying, but people don't tend to nitpick things that aren't popular.

 

[TheDeeble]

Anyone ever wonder why we don't nickel and dime other shows the way we do TWD?

For me because it started out strong. Only 6 episodes and left me wanting more. I rewatched it when they did it in black and white.

I don't think I really started nitpicking till the lame "Glenn buried under a mountain of walkers but he rolled under the dumpster" fake death. I'd noticed a couple things before that but that did it.

 

[zreeves]

I think the biggest problem is that this entire season probably could have been compressed into about 8 episodes and then the second half could have been whatever they are going to do the first half of next season. I understand there are a lot of characters but how much screen time do the characters that people like really get? No one wants an entire episode about Tara or to watch an hour of Morgan whining about killing people, especially when they have already spent so much time on it. Meanwhile, Daryl, Rick and Negan will just disappear from the show for weeks at a time only to make an appearance to cry about something. I know you have to have character development but I bet if you compiled just shots of people staring with no dialogue there would be at least one full episodes worth of footage. Outside of the first and last episode, this entire season was pretty forgettable with very few enjoyable moments mixed into the other 14 episodes. Even the episodes that advanced plot lines, it just felt like it was so unnecessary to dedicate an entire episode to. I think next season will probably have a strong episode 1, but if they revert back to this drawing stuff out for the sake of filling time in episodes 2 and 3 again, I wouldn't be surprised if they had another huge drop off in ratings.

 

[Coug]

The season premiere for next year will be the shows 100th episode.

Someone is going to have to explain to me why a lot of people only watch the first and last episodes of a season? Check out the viewer numbers for the show. It's listed in millions on the far right of each entry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Walking_Dead_episodes

Each season you see a spike in viewers only watching the season premiere episodes then it drops, then it picks up again on the season finale.

 

[Regulator]

The season premiere for next year will be the shows 100th episode.

Someone is going to have to explain to me why a lot of people only watch the first and last episodes of a season? Check out the viewer numbers for the show. It's listed in millions on the far right of each entry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Walking_Dead_episodes

Each season you see a spike in viewers only watching the season premiere episodes then it drops, then it picks up again on the season finale.

Ratings often only account for viewers that watch the initial airing. It doesn't account for DVR. I'd say many people like watching the first and last episodes as they air in order to avoid spoilers, and/or just to watch asap.

 

[BenGrimm]

I think the biggest problem is that this entire season probably could have been compressed into about 8 episodes and then the second half could have been whatever they are going to do the first half of next season. I understand there are a lot of characters but how much screen time do the characters that people like really get? No one wants an entire episode about Tara or to watch an hour of Morgan whining about killing people, especially when they have already spent so much time on it. Meanwhile, Daryl, Rick and Negan will just disappear from the show for weeks at a time only to make an appearance to cry about something. I know you have to have character development but I bet if you compiled just shots of people staring with no dialogue there would be at least one full episodes worth of footage. Outside of the first and last episode, this entire season was pretty forgettable with very few enjoyable moments mixed into the other 14 episodes. Even the episodes that advanced plot lines, it just felt like it was so unnecessary to dedicate an entire episode to. I think next season will probably have a strong episode 1, but if they revert back to this drawing stuff out for the sake of filling time in episodes 2 and 3 again, I wouldn't be surprised if they had another huge drop off in ratings.

The solo episodes is a fair criticism. Although I do think they did a better job of spreading out the story lines a little better this season. The Tara episodes is one of the few exceptions.

But this is the fan paradox of the show. We want more of the the core characters (Rick, Daryl, Carol, Michonne, Maggie, carl, & ???) but at the same time we want meaningful deaths on the show. How many times have the random Alexandrians been called Red Shirts (and it was the same way with the Woodbury refugees at the prison)
To make them meaningful there has to be a constant cycle of introducing new characters and developing them enough to care about when they meet their inevitable end. To do this you have to take screen time away from the core group. Then you are left with this predictable formula where the core group appear "safe" which strips a lot of the drama out. Or the new character is built up in such a way you know they aren't going to last (see Morgan's pupil from the Kingdom). Add to that they have to keep coming up with creative ways to kill off the characters so it seems like they matter.

 

[BigZiti09]

The entire season could have been about 6 episodes and covered everything.

This show has slowed to a crawl.

 

[BenGrimm]

Ratings often only account for viewers that watch the initial airing. It doesn't account for DVR. I'd say many people like watching the first and last episodes as they air in order to avoid spoilers, and/or just to watch asap.

Those are the only ones I attempt to watch live.

Commercial placement on this show is horrendous. I could see way it would drive even the long time viewer to break and watch a day later.

I do think the show did legitimately lose viewers this year. But again... so did almost every show on television.

 

[Coug]

Ratings often only account for viewers that watch the initial airing. It doesn't account for DVR. I'd say many people like watching the first and last episodes as they air in order to avoid spoilers, and/or just to watch asap.

Actually, that's not entirely accurate. DVR viewings are factored in. If you've ever read about tv reviews and ratings you'll come across a term like "Live-Plus". There is live plus same day, live plus three, live plus seven. Live-Plus-three meaning the day the show aired plus anyone who watched the show within 3 days. Live-plus-seven accounts for 7 days after a show aired.

 

[Lurkerin]

Actually, that's not entirely accurate. DVR viewings are factored in. If you've ever read about tv reviews and ratings you'll come across a term like "Live-Plus". There is live plus same day, live plus three, live plus seven. Live-Plus-three meaning the day the show aired plus anyone who watched the show within 3 days. Live-plus-seven accounts for 7 days after a show aired.

Correct. Which means if there is a new show you are remotely interested in keeping on the air, get it off of your DVR within a week.