The you don't want to get involved in this discussion thread (split)

#776
#776
volprof said:
But why do you think they look better? Your rationale is simple causality: you like how a black car looks, so you purchase it. Okay, fair enough. But why do you like how the black car looks? Why do you prefer it being black? Simply saying because it looks better answers nothing.
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I do not believe homosexuality is an innate trait. Every one is conditioned through out their early childhood as to what they like and dislike. As we grow older with more exposure to different things in our environment sometimes our likes and dislikes change.
 
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#780
#780
Big Orange#1 said:
Nope. It's all the "loving" Christians. If everyone actually treated others like Jesus did this argument wouldn't be taking place.
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Theres a distinct difference in disagreeing with something and hating. Also I can hate the sin but not hate the sinner. I'm a sinner that struggles with different sins and temptations on a daily basis.

As a Christian it bothers me that just because I disagree with something that I believe is wrong then I am a hateful person. Is any other group labeled that way? In the example I asked to volprof several pages back when I asked him if a pedophile is "born that way" does that mean we should condone that behavior or not be outspoken against it?
 
#781
#781
tim said:
Im straight. Why do we care where his weenie goes?
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I don't understand why this is ever a story. Are we going to have a story when the rest of his future teammates announce that they are heterosexual? Don't agree with the lifestyle personally, but it's not my place to judge anyone. As long as he isn't hurting anyone or coming on to straight teammates in the locker room then whatever. Seems like a non story to me.
 
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#782
#782
jp1 said:
Theres a distinct difference in disagreeing with something and hating. Also I can hate the sin but not hate the sinner. I'm a sinner that struggles with different sins and temptations on a daily basis.

As a Christian it bothers me that just because I disagree with something that I believe is wrong then I am a hateful person. Is any other group labeled that way? In the example I asked to volprof several pages back when I asked him if a pedophile is "born that way" does that mean we should condone that behavior or not be outspoken against it?
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A pedophile rapes children. That's a long way away from just being gay.
 
#783
#783
jp1 said:
Theres a distinct difference in disagreeing with something and hating. Also I can hate the sin but not hate the sinner. I'm a sinner that struggles with different sins and temptations on a daily basis.

As a Christian it bothers me that just because I disagree with something that I believe is wrong then I am a hateful person. Is any other group labeled that way? In the example I asked to volprof several pages back when I asked him if a pedophile is "born that way" does that mean we should condone that behavior or not be outspoken against it?
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I don't understand why people always try to use the pedophilia example. Homosexuality doesn't harm anyone. People thinking it's gross doesn't equate it to molesting children.
 
#784
#784
DaddyChad said:
I think it took tremendous bravery to do what he did but at the same time he probably cost himself a lot of money.

The scrutiny, media, political, and possibly legal baggage attached to this is something that most teams just will not want to take a chance on. Any draft pick is a chance anyways especially when it brings a potentially volatile situation into your team.
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I guess it does take a tremendous amount of bravery to come out of the closet and a tremendous threshold for pain for the pounding those guys take...sheesh. :)
 
#785
#785
I had no idea there were so many straight folks with expertise on all things homosexual around here. I may just have to reevaluate what life has taught me over these past 43 years.
 
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#788
#788
bkdamoron said:
A pedophile rapes children. That's a long way away from just being gay.
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Wholeheartedly agree. I was merely making an argument to the "born that way" and "didnt choose to be that way" statements.

Also agree that laws are broken in one scenerio and not the other.
 
#790
#790
sanddune50 said:
I don't understand why this is ever a story. Are we going to have a story when the rest of his future teammates announce that they are heterosexual? Don't agree with the lifestyle personally, but it's not my place to judge anyone. As long as he isn't hurting anyone or coming on to straight teammates in the locker room then whatever. Seems like a non story to me.
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It's a story because the national media has an agenda in this country. Not saying that it is right or wrong but the agenda is there to make the public know about it and over report it. If Mr. Sams said he liked busty chicks, it would of gotten a little bit a pub because it is a nice sound bite. It's no big deal really. He is not the first gay football player.
 
#791
#791
utvolpj said:
again that's simply your opinion. You can't define sin for others, only yourself.



which is very convenient for the straight sinners huh? Without the ability to be forgiven for purposeful sins the whole thing kinda falls apart
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Well we would have anarchy if we could not say what is right and what is wrong, because according to you that subjective. I mean I may feel it is ok to steal, cheat, or murder and who are you to judge.

On your second point makes no sense, because we are saying that if say my sin that I struggle with is gossip, it would be wrong for me to say, don't judge me, just love me for who I am. "My straight sin" is no worse than a "homosexual sin" you see.
 
#792
#792
utvolpj said:
it's your opinion that God did since all we have is man's translaton of what they think he meant. All this "love the sinner, hate the sin" stuff is merely an attempt to try and appear nonjudgmental. The very act of declaring someone a sinner based on your personal set of morals is doing exactly that
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You are now judging me, by saying you know my heart and other Christians heart. It is not just to appear nonjudgmental, because we are told in Bible to love others, and to obey What God has written. I know I truly care about others relationship with God, because I want to grow closer to God and I want that for others.
 
#793
#793
volnpowell said:
Well we would have anarchy if we could not say what is right and what is wrong, because according to you that subjective. I mean I may feel it is ok to steal, cheat, or murder and who are you to judge.

On your second point makes no sense, because we are saying that if say my sin that I struggle with is gossip, it would be wrong for me to say, don't judge me, just love me for who I am. "My straight sin" is no worse than a "homosexual sin" you see.
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Defining what is right and wrong is completely different from defining what is a sin. Sin is not a valid concept to someone who doesn't follow a religion that defines sin. Laws prevent what you're saying, and they're created without the need of defining sin.
 
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#794
#794
jjay2518 said:
Defining what is right and wrong is completely different from defining what is a sin. Sin is not a valid concept to someone who doesn't follow a religion that defines sin. Laws prevent what you're saying, and they're created without the need of defining sin.
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What do you base what is right and wrong? Those that believe abortion is ok, say it is their body ( which it is not, it is in their body which is different), they should be able to do what they want with it. Well then I guess prostitution, drugs, etc. should be legal because it is their body.
 
#795
#795
Tennessee Golfer said:
How's this. Choosing to be gay is just like any other sin. Supporting it is just like supporting any other sin. Accepting it just like accepting any other sin. We will all stand before our Creator one day and will give an account of our actions. If you want to ignore that fact or just choose to not believe it then that's your choice. Love the person, hate the sin.
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Huge difference between a fact and your bearded wonder in the sky. The proper term for that is your belief, not a fact.
 
#797
#797
volnpowell said:
What do you base what is right and wrong? Those that believe abortion is ok, say it is their body ( which it is not, it is in their body which is different), they should be able to do what they want with it. Well then I guess prostitution, drugs, etc. should be legal because it is their body.
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I actually would argue that recreational drugs should be legalized and taxed, but that's a different discussion.

I'm not going to touch abortion and make this thread even more of a cluster, but the law is currently at odds with Christian thought on this and anarchy hasn't ensued, so I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make.

And to answer your original question, I base what is right and wrong on how it affects others. Your drugs example is a good one. I think it is wrong to abuse drugs to the point that it negatively affects the lives of those in your life, but I also feel the same about alcohol which is legal.
 
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#799
#799
volprof said:
Oh, you're making my father-in-law, the crazy conservative's, argument about justifying our treatment of Native Americans. Well, let me share this with you, sir. Yes, it is true that there are Native American tribes that benefit from casinos. How this justifies centuries of oppression and genocide I'm not sure, but fair enough. But here's what you left out: look up the current conditions of Indian reservations. They have among the highest (and often the highest) rates of crime, rape, alcoholism and drug abuse, and suicide of any ethnic group in this country. Furthermore, their educational systems and schools are below subpar. This is reality for the majority of Native Americans who actually live as Native Americans and don't just use their great-great-great grandmother's Indian ancestry as a federal stat-stuffer, so to speak.
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I am not saying that to justify it. I really don't have to justify it. Civilization expanded west and the progress wasn't always pleasant. If they live as native Americans then why do they care if the education system is subpar. Chipping rocks doesn't require a degree in physics. I know I am a bit over the top but it gets tiring listening to people that faced no true hardships in their entire life living in today's world judging a society with an entirely different set of values. I mentioned Lewis and Clark because they faced real dangers from the native Americans and also carefully chronicled the relationships with the tribes. Think of giving up evereything you have in Europe or in the colonies to come and carve a life from literally nothing. We no longer look at the explorer as the heroes they were. We can't take back nor should we what has happened in the past. Manifest Destiny or whatever you choose to call it happened. The world is better because the United States exists even with all of our flaws and our mistake filled past.
 
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#800
#800
jjay2518 said:
Defining what is right and wrong is completely different from defining what is a sin. Sin is not a valid concept to someone who doesn't follow a religion that defines sin. Laws prevent what you're saying, and they're created without the need of defining sin.
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Russia doesn't have gay people and they aren't Christian. Ask Putin.
 
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