Theisman says Tebow should Retire

#101
#101
VKAman said:
Winning comes first.

Unfortunately, the kids who are the most helpful in winning are also the ones who want to get to the next level. If Florida isn't too good at that with Meyer's system, it's going to be a problem. Before you start telling me about their recruiting class, notice that all of the best players are the ones least affected by Meyer's offensive system...
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And this is where most of you guys are chasing your tail.

Those same heralded recruits are consistent with how Meyer's won both championships at UF...with defense first.

Tebow got the hype, but you and I both know Harvin and that defense set the tone in '08 (save for Tebow's performance in the '08 Bama game...that was remarkable). Ditto for our '06 defense.

So feel free to focus on how Meyer won't last at UF because he can't develop offense players for the NFL.
 
#102
#102
VKAman said:
And this is just a really bad time to talk about getting people ready for the NFL, as people are tearing Tebow apart because he is so not ready that scouts are saying things like



Louis Murphy starting for the Raiders over other people who clearly suck is not going to offset this from a publicity standpoint, at all...
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Again, when UF's recruiting starts to suffer from all this let me know.
 
#103
#103
VKAman said:
Winning comes first.

Unfortunately, the kids who are the most helpful in winning are also the ones who want to get to the next level. If Florida isn't too good at that with Meyer's system, it's going to be a problem. Before you start telling me about their recruiting class, notice that all of the best players are the ones least affected by Meyer's offensive system...
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This.

Percy could've played anywhere in college and still have left after his junior year for a first round draft pick.

It's like John Wall at UK...is Coach Cal really going to be the one who makes or breaks Wall's draft status? Hell no.

Also, Tebow could've been regarded as one of those "percy-like" players in that he was the #1 QB overall and with some help in his throwing mechanics, I think many would've predicted him to be a first round draft pick. The problem was, the system that he went in to and the coaching really hurt him. He's the same player he was in high school. I saw zero improvement from his sophomore year of college to his senior year.

My bottom line is this: As a QB at Florida, can you get any better than Tebow was at running that offense? No. Yet where is he going to be drafted? That's something future QB recruits need to consider and it's something every team will use against Florida in recruiting.
 
#104
#104
Lawrence Wright said:
And this is where most of you guys are chasing your tail.

Those same heralded recruits are consistent with how Meyer's won both championships at UF...with defense first.

Tebow got the hype, but you and I both know Harvin and that defense set the tone in '08 (save for Tebow's performance in the '08 Bama game...that was remarkable). Ditto for our '06 defense.

So feel free to focus on how Meyer won't last at UF because he can't develop offense players for the NFL.
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But when they don't have an explosive offense (this past year) they're not close to the same team they were the year before...they returned their entire two-deep on defense, as Florida fans loved to say for so long, but were a much worse team overall...
 
#105
#105
Sudeepvol said:
This.

Percy could've played anywhere in college and still have left after his junior year for a first round draft pick.

It's like John Wall at UK...is Coach Cal really going to be the one who makes or breaks Wall's draft status? Hell no.

Also, Tebow could've been regarded as one of those "percy-like" players in that he was the #1 QB overall and with some help in his throwing mechanics, I think many would've predicted him to be a first round draft pick. The problem was, the system that he went in to and the coaching really hurt him. He's the same player he was in high school. I saw zero improvement from his sophomore year of college to his senior year.

My bottom line is this: As a QB at Florida, can you get any better than Tebow was at running that offense? No. Yet where is he going to be drafted? That's something future QB recruits need to consider that it's something every team will use against Florida in recruiting.
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Your bottom line doesn't take into account that Meyer tweaks the offense based on the talent he has.

The offense under Chris Leak was completely different than the last three years with Tebow, and it will look completely different the next two years with Brantley starting.
 
#106
#106
VKAman said:
But when they don't have an explosive offense (this past year) they're not close to the same team they were the year before...they returned their entire two-deep on defense, as Florida fans loved to say for so long, but were a much worse team overall...
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"Much worse" is a stretch considering we finished with the same record as the year before.

Offensively we weren't as good, and our defense decided to take the day off at the worst possible time.
 
#107
#107
Lawrence Wright said:
Your bottom line doesn't take into account that Meyer tweaks the offense based on the talent he has.

The offense under Chris Leak was completely different than the last three years with Tebow, and it will look completely different the next two years with Brantley starting.
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Have to give him credit. He has changed things up dependent on talent. But, we'll see how things turn out. You'll forgive me if I exhibit a bit of Schaden Freude this fall if you have problems.
 
#108
#108
Tampavolz said:
Look at Alex Smith who has taken years only to get competant at being a QB -- Theisman is not an idiot - Meyer really is pathetic getting a QB ready for the next level. In a few years Tebow will see that his good friend really did him no favors.
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At what age or point in life is the course of one's life THEIR OWN RESPONSIBILITY ? !!!!

2 NC rings, Heisman Trophy, and a college degree.

Yeah, I'd feel cheated.
 
#109
#109
hohenfelsvol said:
Have to give him credit. He has changed things up dependent on talent. But, we'll see how things turn out. You'll forgive me if I exhibit a bit of Schaden Freude this fall if you have problems.
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Some folks here are already doing that, as if UT doesn't have it's own concerns.

For the record I expect UF to lose 2-3 games in 2010, twice to Bama and another game along the way.
 
#111
#111
Lawrence Wright said:
Some folks here are already doing that, as if UT doesn't have it's own concerns.

For the record I expect UF to lose 2-3 games in 2010, twice to Bama and another game along the way.
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I know UT will have issues. Doesn't matter who the coach was this year. Gators will probably do well, but like you predict, not like the last four years.
 
#112
#112
VKAman said:
Winning comes first.

Unfortunately, the kids who are the most helpful in winning are also the ones who want to get to the next level. If Florida isn't too good at that with Meyer's system, it's going to be a problem. Before you start telling me about their recruiting class, notice that all of the best players are the ones least affected by Meyer's offensive system...
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History is littered with the flamed out careers of college coaches that were very successful winning conference titles, winning national titles, and producing Heisman trophy winners but were abruptly fired because they did not develop enough NFL talent.

See that more still follow the church of monte's kid.

Next. Let's hear about the lack of middle school kid commitments as an indicator for impending doom for a program.
 
#113
#113
Incinigator said:
History is littered with the flamed out careers of college coaches that were very successful winning conference titles, winning national titles, and producing Heisman trophy winners but were abruptly fired because they did not develop enough NFL talent.

See that more still follow the church of monte's kid.

Next. Let's hear about the lack of middle school kid commitments as an indicator for impending doom for a program.
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It's not an abrupt thing. It's a gradual talent level thing. If Florida players keep flaming out in the NFL, especially on offense, recruits will notice. Many of them already do. That's why the Percy Harvins and Tim Tebows start to turn into Chris Dunkleys and Trey Burtons...and why Florida hasn't gotten a great RB in a while...
 
#114
#114
VKAman said:
It's not an abrupt thing. It's a gradual talent level thing. If Florida players keep flaming out in the NFL, especially on offense, recruits will notice. Many of them already do. That's why the Percy Harvins and Tim Tebows start to turn into Chris Dunkleys and Trey Burtons...and why Florida hasn't gotten a great RB in a while...
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Your first mistake is assuming there are Tim Tebows and Percy Harvins out there every year.

Secondly, Spurrier did just fine at UF without having any offensive standouts at the next level.

Finally, I agree with you about Trey Burton. He's a project and could wind up at another position. I also think barring injury John Brantley change the perception of what an Urban Meyer QB looks like. There's too many people here with the mindset that every UF QB has to play like Tebow for UF to be successful.
 
#115
#115
NEWSFLASH...

Recruiting rankings and the number of NFL draftees do not win conference titles or get your team into the BCS NC game.

No matter what a certain coach that doesn't coach in Tennessee, anymore, might have you believe.
 
#116
#116
Incinigator said:
NEWSFLASH...

Recruiting rankings and the number of NFL draftees do not win conference titles or get your team into the BCS NC game.

No matter what a certain coach that doesn't coach in Tennessee, anymore, might have you believe.
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Not by itself, sure, but there is a very very strong correlation between the two...
 
#117
#117
Lawrence Wright said:
Your first mistake is assuming there are Tim Tebows and Percy Harvins out there every year.

Secondly, Spurrier did just fine at UF without having any offensive standouts at the next level.

Finally, I agree with you about Trey Burton. He's a project and could wind up at another position. I also think barring injury John Brantley change the perception of what an Urban Meyer QB looks like. There's too many people here with the mindset that every UF QB has to play like Tebow for UF to be successful.
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Not every year, but at this point their receivers really don't scare anyone near as much as they did a few years ago, especially with Debose getting injured.

Fred Taylor has accomplished more than Louis Murphy ever will, and I'm sure there are more examples that I'm not thinking about right now. Even Ike Hilliard will probably end up with a better career than Murphy.

I agree with your last point. That is how we think because that's how it's been. I just have a hard time believing that they'll switch to a much more pro-style offense, the same way that many top HS QBs (Jesse Scroggins) apparently have a hard time believing the same thing. The same way I had a hard time believing that Brantley was going to be utilized early in games this year (which didn't happen). Plus, even if Brantley does turn into Sam Bradford, there are going to be a lot of questions about spread QBs. It would certainly lessen the problems, though.
 
#119
#119
VKAman said:
Not every year, but at this point their receivers really don't scare anyone near as much as they did a few years ago, especially with Debose getting injured.

Fred Taylor has accomplished more than Louis Murphy ever will, and I'm sure there are more examples that I'm not thinking about right now. Even Ike Hilliard will probably end up with a better career than Murphy.

I agree with your last point. That is how we think because that's how it's been. I just have a hard time believing that they'll switch to a much more pro-style offense, the same way that many top HS QBs (Jesse Scroggins) apparently have a hard time believing the same thing. The same way I had a hard time believing that Brantley was going to be utilized early in games this year (which didn't happen). Plus, even if Brantley does turn into Sam Bradford, there are going to be a lot of questions about spread QBs. It would certainly lessen the problems, though.
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In my opinion Debose will be a bigger playmaker than any receiver on last year's team, and that includes Tebow's boy Riley Cooper.

Fred Taylor was a 4/5* kid out of Belle Glade, and Ike Hilliard was the 7th player taken in the '97 NFL Draft. Comparing either to Louis Murphy makes the argument that Meyer can indeed develop NFL talent.

Riddle me this....why was Phil Fulmer fired? Charlie Weiss? Why is Mark Richt on the hot seat?

Because they didn't develop enough NFL talent?
 
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#120
#120
Lawrence Wright said:
In my opinion Debose will be a bigger playmaker than any receiver on last year's team, and that includes Tebow's boy Riley Cooper.

Fred Taylor was a 4/5* kid out of Belle Glade, and Ike Hilliard was the 7th player taken in the '97 NFL Draft. Comparing either to Louis Murphy makes the argument that Meyer can indeed develop NFL talent.

Riddle me this....why was Phil Fulmer fired? Charlie Weiss? Why is Mark Richt on the hot seat?

Because they're not developing enough NFL talent?
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NEWSFLASH...this is a TENNESSEE message board. You aren't going to win an argument on a message board that isn't your own.
 
#124
#124
It is totally amazing that anyone feels the need to take up for a young man that has accomplished as much as TT has in his college career. Shut up and let his talent speak for itself.
 
#125
#125
lylsmorr said:
Prove me wrong then, this should be good.
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Let's keep going.

No need to disprove wrong theories with no basis unless you can prove that, without any question, aliens are abducting people and then bringing them back.

Then I might believe what you say.
 
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