There's not a penalty to harsh for PSU!

[VolBeef88]

Penn State's scandal is worse than Southern Methodist's scandal in a criminal sense. Southern Methodist's scandal is worse than Penn State's scandal in an NCAA Football sense. How is this so difficult to understand?

NCAA is a member institution. As such the NCAA has the right and the responsibility to set rules of behavior of its membership. If this isn't a case of the most egregious lack of institutional control then I'd like to see a better example.
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[YorkVol]

In reference to Paterno, what I saw was along the lines of:

Have perspective. He's human and humans make errors. This was a major error, unfortunately.

The "he was human" argument is wearing thin. I look at the opportunities he had to make up for his mistakes. He knew in 98 there were problems. He had a second chance to stop it in 2001. In both cases he chose the image of his program over the lives of kids. I can almost give him a pass for 98, but he should have acted in 01 or at least done something between 01 and his falsified grand jury testimony in 2010. The grand jury testimony shows that he intended to keep a lid on this and when he realized it was out, he lied to save his own legacy.

The fact is that people around here know that Joe covered up a lot over the years. People were okay with him handling the rapes, robberies and assaults committed by his players because it allowed them to maintain this spotless image. Unfortunately, that image was a lie and a bunch of kids suffered because of it.

 

[Shaun1985]

Why not have the university self impose the following:

Establish, operate, and maintain a community outreach type operation that raises awareness about sexual predators.

Create a systematic approach to where students, athletes, and all other personell actively participate in coordination with other local and state agencies for the betterment and quality of life for minors who have suffered sexual abuse.

Provide and facilitate peer counscling programs on campus for families and youths that have suffered from these atrocities.

Participate in local and state fundraising opportunities for the development of help centers designed to accommodate victims that are older and suffer long term effects of this type of abuse.

Developement and designate a learning center on campus and allow for course studies specifically designed towards the long term effects of sexual predators and research the criminology aspect of that in order to identify and diagnose potential predators prior to them conducting their crimes.


How bout spreading awareness and attempting to provide more solutions and conssessions rather than not playing a effing football game on Saturday?

Let's help more people rather than punish those left behind in the rubble created by few.


That harsh enough?

Agree 110%. At first, I was all for the death penalty and the harshest punishment possible for PSU and the whole athletic department but the more I thought about it, the more unfair it is. The people that did this are not in power anymore. No reason to punish the football program.

 

[VolBeef88]

Agree 110%. At first, I was all for the death penalty and the harshest punishment possible for PSU and the whole athletic department but the more I thought about it, the more unfair it is. The people that did this are not in power anymore. No reason to punish the football program.

Then no matter what happens at a university as long as the individual or individuals are canned the school gets off free? If these same men gave a recruit a few bucks and were busted, everyone would be screaming for severe punishment for PSU. But the raping of little boys is somehow different?
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[CountVolcula]

Agree 110%. At first, I was all for the death penalty and the harshest punishment possible for PSU and the whole athletic department but the more I thought about it, the more unfair it is. The people that did this are not in power anymore. No reason to punish the football program.

So if the NCAA finds out Bama or Auburn paid players 6 years ago, then they shouldnt be punished because none of the old coaches were there or players?

 

[GhostVol]

For those who say that the PSU football program should not be punished (for whatever reason) I have a question.

Does the fact that the coverup of child molestation was for the purpose of furthering the football program not have any bearing on whether the program should be punished?

 

[bamawriter]

So if the NCAA finds out Bama or Auburn paid players 6 years ago, then they shouldnt be punished because none of the old coaches were there or players?

I think it's a fairly tough sell that protecting Sandusky gave PSU a competitive advantage.

 

[GhostVol]

I think it's a fairly tough sell that protecting Sandusky gave PSU a competitive advantage.

Really??? You don't think keeping a kiddie rapist out of the public eye did NOTHING to ensure that top notch players kept coming to PSU?? Are you serious???

 

[bamawriter]

For those who say that the PSU football program should not be punished (for whatever reason) I have a question.

Does the fact that the coverup of child molestation was for the purpose of furthering the football program not have any bearing on whether the program should be punished?

It's that fact that has me convinced that PSU must take some kind of action, and do it quickly.

There is nothing that PSU or the NCAA can do that will be anything more than symbolic (aside from PSU paying large settlements to the victims). PSU's football program cannot do anything to make the victims whole. Sitting out bowl games, or losing scholarships, or dismantling football all together isn't a punishment that fits the crime in question.

But PSU needs to expunge the numerous ways they honor Paterno around that campus. They need to wipe the record books clean so that the wins that motivated his inaction are no longer counted. Doing this won't help the victims, but it will show that PSU acknowledges who Paterno was, and what they allowed him to become. It will at least send the message that it should never have happened, and will never happen again.

And as I said before, they should write some VERY large checks. Checks that will keep the victims well-situated for the rest of their lives. There is nothing else that they, or the NCAA, can do that would mean anything.

 

[bamawriter]

Really??? You don't think keeping a kiddie rapist out of the public eye did NOTHING to ensure that top notch players kept coming to PSU?? Are you serious???

Honestly, I think Paterno might have believed that. But I think reality is exactly the opposite. Had they turned Sandusky in when they had the chance, the publicity would have been nothing but positive. Joe Paterno would have been hailed as a hero for turning in a good friend. PSU would have had a greater recruiting advantage had they served Sandusky up to the cops, but Paterno was to old/senile/loyal/stupid to see the forest for the trees.

 

[OldandStillaVol]

It's that fact that has me convinced that PSU must take some kind of action, and do it quickly.

There is nothing that PSU or the NCAA can do that will be anything more than symbolic (aside from PSU paying large settlements to the victims). PSU's football program cannot do anything to make the victims whole. Sitting out bowl games, or losing scholarships, or dismantling football all together isn't a punishment that fits the crime in question.

But PSU needs to expunge the numerous ways they honor Paterno around that campus. They need to wipe the record books clean so that the wins that motivated his inaction are no longer counted. Doing this won't help the victims, but it will show that PSU acknowledges who Paterno was, and what they allowed him to become. It will at least send the message that it should never have happened, and will never happen again.

And as I said before, they should write some VERY large checks. Checks that will keep the victims well-situated for the rest of their lives. There is nothing else that they, or the NCAA, can do that would mean anything.

Suppose Penn State were to take a hard line legal approach and fight the victims tooth and nail. Appeal any victories that the victims got in lower courts to upper courts. Stall, delay, delay, delay, for years and years. Meanwhile, self impose nothing meaningful (say 1 scholarship reduction per year).

Would you still feel that the NCAA should stay away and just let the legal process play itsel out?

 

[vols4evah]

here is something you are not all considering.

first of all you can bet the rumor mill has been working over time at PSU for 14 years and that most if not all the people in charge heard about what was going on. You cant really keep something like this from spreading especially if the janitors knew about it. Everyone at PSU had some knowledge of this and for 14 years.

yet they all stood by and did nothing.

also all of this was done to protect the football program. So if the football program comes out of this unscathed then didn't they win ? and wasn't it worth it to them to let all those children be abused ?

I say NO they should not be allowed to walk away unscathed.

If ever a football program and a University deserved the death penalty its PSU.
Its what they all, everyone in charge including the board of trustees deserve.

That would be a small amount of Justice for the victims.

 

[GhostVol]

It's that fact that has me convinced that PSU must take some kind of action, and do it quickly.

There is nothing that PSU or the NCAA can do that will be anything more than symbolic (aside from PSU paying large settlements to the victims). PSU's football program cannot do anything to make the victims whole. Sitting out bowl games, or losing scholarships, or dismantling football all together isn't a punishment that fits the crime in question.

But PSU needs to expunge the numerous ways they honor Paterno around that campus. They need to wipe the record books clean so that the wins that motivated his inaction are no longer counted. Doing this won't help the victims, but it will show that PSU acknowledges who Paterno was, and what they allowed him to become. It will at least send the message that it should never have happened, and will never happen again.

And as I said before, they should write some VERY large checks. Checks that will keep the victims well-situated for the rest of their lives. There is nothing else that they, or the NCAA, can do that would mean anything.

I actually agree that all of the things that you mention must happen, but I honestly don't feel that that's enough. A minimum two-year suspension of the football program demonstrates that they (the NCAA) understands that football is NOT the be all/end all of the university.

 

[GhostVol]

Honestly, I think Paterno might have believed that. But I think reality is exactly the opposite. Had they turned Sandusky in when they had the chance, the publicity would have been nothing but positive. Joe Paterno would have been hailed as a hero for turning in a good friend. PSU would have had a greater recruiting advantage had they served Sandusky up to the cops, but Paterno was to old/senile/loyal/stupid to see the forest for the trees.

And, while I agree with this as well, the fact of the matter is that is not what happened. By not hammering the football program you essentially say that the means justified the end. The means being the cover up and the end being the preservation of the football program. By hammering the football program you show everyone that coverups are not acceptable.

 

[TrueOrange]

For those who say that the PSU football program should not be punished (for whatever reason) I have a question.

Does the fact that the coverup of child molestation was for the purpose of furthering the football program not have any bearing on whether the program should be punished?

People are saying it shouldn't be the a sports organization punishing them; that their criminal activities should be punished inside criminal courts.


Some others feel that the land and absolutely everything related to it should be raised, burned, salted, and peed on....then burned again

Others just aren't sure how best to handle it.

Most aren't against any sanctions coming from the program itself (with some okaying NCAA involvement if they somehow respond "f--k off, we're penn state"...which they probably won't unless people who eat paint chips run the organization)

Personally, I don't think all that happened was in the end giving them some unfair playing advantage or any such without stretching some things into "well maybe had they done this then maybe this would have happened instead"

 

[GhostVol]

here is something you are not all considering.

first of all you can bet the rumor mill has been working over time at PSU for 14 years and that most if not all the people in charge heard about what was going on. You cant really keep something like this from spreading especially if the janitors knew about it. Everyone at PSU had some knowledge of this and for 14 years.

yet they all stood by and did nothing.

also all of this was done to protect the football program. So if the football program comes out of this unscathed then didn't they win ? and wasn't it worth it to them to let all those children be abused ?

I say NO they should not be allowed to walk away unscathed.

If ever a football program and a University deserved the death penalty its PSU.
Its what they all, everyone in charge including the board of trustees deserve.

That would be a small amount of Justice for the victims.

Excellent points, in my book. You'd absolutely be a fool with your head in the sand to think that the higher-ups were the only ones that knew something was going on. The fact that you can't prove that any given individual knew what was going on means nothing.

 

[bamawriter]

Suppose Penn State were to take a hard line legal approach and fight the victims tooth and nail. Appeal any victories that the victims got in lower courts to upper courts. Stall, delay, delay, delay, for years and years. Meanwhile, self impose nothing meaningful (say 1 scholarship reduction per year).

Would you still feel that the NCAA should stay away and just let the legal process play itsel out?

Yes I would.

But, I would hope that others would choose to deal with Penn State accordingly. Such shamelessness on PSU's part reflects badly on anyone associated with them. I would hope donors would stop giving. I would hope the Big Ten would kick them out. I would hope other school around the country would stop associating with them, either athletically or academically. I would hope PSU would become so radioactive that they fall apart.

 

[orangesparkles]

Suppose Penn State were to take a hard line legal approach and fight the victims tooth and nail. Appeal any victories that the victims got in lower courts to upper courts. Stall, delay, delay, delay, for years and years. Meanwhile, self impose nothing meaningful (say 1 scholarship reduction per year).

Would you still feel that the NCAA should stay away and just let the legal process play itsel out?

The NCAA should still keep away, but this situation would never, ever happen. Penn State is already reeling, and dragging itself through the mud further by both denying a report they paid $500,000 a month to have conducted and fighting victims of molestation would be an absolute public relations nightmare.

 

[bamawriter]

I actually agree that all of the things that you mention must happen, but I honestly don't feel that that's enough. A minimum two-year suspension of the football program demonstrates that they (the NCAA) understands that football is NOT the be all/end all of the university.

But again, that's simply symbolic. It's great to want to send a message. I completely understand wanting to see that happen. But that's not what the NCAA was established to do, nor have the members given the NCAA that kind of authority.

If PSU were to disband their football program, you won't get any complaint from me. But the decision absolutely must be up to PSU right now.

 

[GhostVol]

People are saying it shouldn't be the a sports organization punishing them; that their criminal activities should be punished inside criminal courts.


Some others feel that the land and absolutely everything related to it should be raised, burned, salted, and peed on....then burned again

Others just aren't sure how best to handle it.

Most aren't against any sanctions coming from the program itself (with some okaying NCAA involvement if they somehow respond "f--k off, we're penn state"...which they probably won't unless people who eat paint chips run the organization)

Personally, I don't think all that happened was in the end giving them some unfair playing advantage or any such without stretching some things into "well maybe had they done this then maybe this would have happened instead"

The response to the competitive advantage argument is that if even ONE recruit had gone to another school because they didn't want to be linked to this cluster**** (no matter how peripherally) then yes, they DID gain a competitive advantage.

 

[bamawriter]

here is something you are not all considering.

first of all you can bet the rumor mill has been working over time at PSU for 14 years and that most if not all the people in charge heard about what was going on. You cant really keep something like this from spreading especially if the janitors knew about it. Everyone at PSU had some knowledge of this and for 14 years.

yet they all stood by and did nothing.

I completely disagree with this premise, so the rest of your post doesn't work in my mind. No matter how long it went on, you are making an assumption that is way too broad, and has nothing to back it up.

 

[Burger]

Penn State should have the death penalty for Penn State. This is the worst case of lack of institutional control, and it has been happening since the 80's up to now. Joe Paterno lied about his recruiting ethics, and about Sandusky being Chester the child molestor. How is this not lack of institutional control, as it was completely hidden along with everything else Joepa handled. Joe Paterno had to be a real idiot if he didnt know. Penn state deserves the death penality as their ignorance traumatized many people.

 

[Burger]

I completely disagree with this premise, so the rest of your post doesn't work in my mind. No matter how long it went on, you are making an assumption that is way too broad, and has nothing to back it up.

It was hidden extremely well until McQueary came out.

 

[TrueOrange]

And, while I agree with this as well, the fact of the matter is that is not what happened. By not hammering the football program you essentially say that the means justified the end. The means being the cover up and the end being the preservation of the football program. By hammering the football program you show everyone that coverups are not acceptable.

How does not hammering the football program say it was justified?

The guy who did it's in jail for life (a place that won't take kindly to what he did)

The four guys who covered it up got fired.

The university is going to be hit with a multitude of expensive civil suits that it will have to maybe pay millions for (and three of the guys who covered it up likely will face the same).

The school is going to have a black eye for decades that it will likely have to spend probably some millions on community service foundations, projects, etc, just to somewhat lighten their image.

Really the only guy who got out of all of did so because he died.


How, then, does all that say what they did was okay in the end? If anything it seems, towards others, to be a massive deterrent against what they did and how much more severe the outcome is.

 

[bamawriter]

The response to the competitive advantage argument is that if even ONE recruit had gone to another school because they didn't want to be linked to this cluster**** (no matter how peripherally) then yes, they DID gain a competitive advantage.

It's completely impossible to establish causation. Maybe recruits wouldn't have wanted to come there in the wake of a child rape arrest in 2001. But it's just as likely, if not more so, that recruits and their parents would have been even more impressed by PSU and Joe Paterno.

If you pay a recruit, there is a direct causal link between your actions and his decision to come to your school. That's impossible to establish in this case.