There's not a penalty to harsh for PSU!

#151
#151
bamawriter said:
I completely disagree with this premise, so the rest of your post doesn't work in my mind. No matter how long it went on, you are making an assumption that is way too broad, and has nothing to back it up.
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Well do you honestly think that you could stop the gossip about this in a organisation that big after people from the very top down to a janitor knew about it ? I mean honestly are you that naive ? This would have spread like wildfire and everyone including the student body would have heard rumors and you can bet that the people at the top each and everyone knew about it. Its simply impossible to stop the rumors. People talk and gossip its human nature.
Can it be proved ? no it cant, but they knew they all knew and a little common sense will tell you that.
 
#152
#152
vols4evah said:
Well do you honestly think that you could stop the gossip about this in a organisation that big after people from the very top down to a janitor knew about it ? I mean honestly are you that naive ? This would have spread like wildfire and everyone including the student body would have heard rumors and you can bet that the people at the top each and everyone knew about it. Its simply impossible to stop the rumors. People talk and gossip its human nature.
Can it be proved ? no it cant, but they knew they all knew and a little common sense will tell you that.
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You clearly haven't read the report. The janitors knew because they saw Sandusky with a child in the shower, but they didn't tell anyone because they were terrified. The greatest weapon against gossip is fear, and that's exactly what kept it shut up in Happy Valley. Everyone who knew about Sandusky was afraid of something, and that's exactly why it DIDN'T spread.
 
#155
#155
vollygirl said:
I'm having a hard time feeling the NCAA having that kind of power is a good thing.
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People want to think the NCAA should act because this is a horrible situation tied to sports, and most of those situations are handled by the NCAA. It's understandable, but it's misguided.
 
#156
#156
milohimself said:
Because the institution didn't molest little boys or cover up for that, the people did.

Cars are fantastic things, incredibly useful and have been a cornerstone of society as we know it. But when somebody gets drunk and gets behind the wheel of one, it can turn into a murder weapon.

Universities and football programs have had a fantastic impact on society. The results of American universities speak for themselves, and football programs are responsible for bringing people together, lifting 18 year old kids out of poverty, providing an outlet for the rest of us, and countless other goods. This is the result of a drunk person, so to speak, getting behind the wheel of an institution.

I've never bought into punishing institutions, I've always bought into punishing the people who actually commit crimes.

SMU's death penalty wound up harming thousands of people and having an impact probably in the hundreds of millions of dollars, almost entirely on people who had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the infractions.

The people guilty for what happened are already dead, in jail or are about to lose the rest of their lives through criminal and civil action. Just like how Sandusky ruined the lives of those kids. That sounds like justice served to me.

Anything above and beyond that, specifically by the NCAA, will hurt holders of Penn State diplomas. It will hurt Penn State athletes. It will hurt Penn State students. It will hurt the rest of the Big Ten. It could possibly wreck the economy in central Pennsylvania.

But you know who it won't touch? Actions by the NCAA at this point won't touch ONE DAMNED PERSON who was complicit in any way in Sandusky's actions.

You can be damned sure this whole episode is yet another swift kick in the gonads to society about rethinking how we view institutions, but responding by burning one to the ground, specifically one that is the very lifeblood of its area, is reckless, it's irresponsible and it's outright stupid.
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I agree with a lot of what you wrote. But the very institution itself is in fact guilty (in any legal setting the actions of the Prez, VP and other high officials in this matter warrants the institution not just the individual) by the leaders of that institution not only turning a blind eye to what they knew happened in the past but by their lack of action multiple more little boys were raped. If a member organization such as the NCAA is serious about holding their membership to high standards of character and moral behavior then turning their own blind eye in this situation is not an option.
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#158
#158
VolBeef88 said:
If a member organization such as the NCAA is serious about holding their membership to high standards of character and moral behavior then turning their own blind eye in this situation is not an option.
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The NCAA doesn't exist to enforce "character" or "moral behavior". It exists to enforce fair play and amateurism.
 
#164
#164
bamawriter said:
PSU didn't violate any NCAA rules.
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They grossly violated the General Principles. The NCAA is an organization of member institutions. Like it or not, they can essentially give out punishments as they see fit. They can't be strict on reporting out of control boosters but not on reporting a serial child molester.
 
#165
#165
VolBeef88 said:
As a private membership organization they set rules for their members.
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making rules after the fact?

VolBeef88 said:
You need to read. They have a rule about member institution conduct and the image that's expected by each member institution to uphold.
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Would ask that you quote this rule please
 
#166
#166
bamawriter said:
I'll quote from the Freeh Report:

"The District Attorney at the time of the 1998 incident has been missing for several years and has been declared dead. "
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I was referring to the conversations that have been going on for years up here. Here is a message board that shows the kinds of conversations that are happening around the clock up here.

Ray Gricar: Missing Pennsylvania DA

For some unknown reason, Gricar did not prosecute in 98 and never received any report that we know of in 01/02. That doesn't mean he wasn't building a case. But, as it has been pointed out repeatedly, you can't find anyone in State College who would ever testify against anyone in the football program. Well, except for McCreary who was paid off with a promotion.
 
#167
#167
So, serious question because I don't know exactly what this is. Rule? Bylaw? General guideline? Gentle hint? What is this?

19.01.2 Exemplary Conduct. Individuals employed by or associated with member institutions for the administration, the conduct or the coaching of intercollegiate athletics are, in the final analysis, teachers of young people. Their responsibility is an affirmative one, and they must do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts. Their own moral values must be so certain and positive that those younger and more pliable will be influenced by a fine example. Much more is expected of them than of the less critically placed citizen.
 
#168
#168
It comes down to this for me: any punishment that adversely affects the lives of more innocent victims isn't the correct one, imo.
 
#169
#169
BearCat204 said:
I see what you are saying and agree with its intent, but the bottom line is that the NCAA has no authority here to do anything. You show me a rule or bylaw of the NCAA that covers anything in this case that is currently in writing, then I can agree with you. The fact is, the AA doesnt have anything that covers this and IMO, has no grounds to either investigate or to punish. JMO
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bamawriter said:
You're half right. PSU has the power to do something, as do various accreditation agencies and the DOE. I would the think the State of Pennsylvania could do some damage, as well.

As stated before, the NCAA isn't really the proper source of discipline in this matter.
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You are both technically correct, however, the NCAA could simply say "We don't like organizations who allow coaches to rape kids in their locker rooms, and don't want you as a member anymore, so there's the door, don't let it hit you on your way out."

I'd be okay with that.
 
#170
#170
GhostVol said:
So, serious question because I don't know exactly what this is. Rule? Bylaw? General guideline? Gentle hint? What is this?

19.01.2 Exemplary Conduct. Individuals employed by or associated with member institutions for the administration, the conduct or the coaching of intercollegiate athletics are, in the final analysis, teachers of young people. Their responsibility is an affirmative one, and they must do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts. Their own moral values must be so certain and positive that those younger and more pliable will be influenced by a fine example. Much more is expected of them than of the less critically placed citizen.
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Falls under the enforcement bylaw........read it along with 1.3 1.4 and 1.5
 
#172
#172
YorkVol said:
You are both technically correct, however, the NCAA could simply say "We don't like organizations who allow coaches to rape kids in their locker rooms, and don't want you as a member anymore, so there's the door, don't let it hit you on your way out."

I'd be okay with that.
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They could certainly do that..........but as I read the bylaws, the AA doesnt have any ground to stand on as far as punishment under their established rules.
 
#174
#174
BearCat204 said:
They could certainly do that..........but as I read the bylaws, the AA doesnt have any ground to stand on as far as punishment under their established rules.
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So, they turn their backs and tell good old PSU, when you've cleaned up your act you can reapply for membership.
 
#175
#175
You guys are arguing about the wrong body, of who may or may no inflict any punishment. The DOE is who is gonna do the majority of the punishing and yes this will lead to innocent people not getting loans and grants, thus will inflict more harm then anything the NCAA could do.
 
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