Trump Deliberately Lied To Americans About Covid 19

#376
#376
titansvolsfaninga said:
would he not know the character/personality of the person he worked for?
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Not the point. He was asked to comment about coronavirus deaths. He knows nothing of that. He based his argument on his personal opinions of the character not on the facts of the situation. It’s a false argument.
 
#377
#377
Rifleman said:
Best case for America? About 75k -100k fewer dead. Of course that would be if all involved, not just the POTUS, didn't bungle this. WHO, CDC, Democrat Govs, etc., all deserve a good slice of the blame. Would people still be mad at Trump? Yup.

More likely scenario would be 25 - 50K fewer if everything happened the same and Trump put a federal plan in place which hinged on metrics. Economy would be further along too. Would people still be mad at Trump? Yup.

You may want to poke holes in these estimates, but I used a time machine to get these numbers. I've lived through 2020 1,000 times just to get a good sample. Nothing you can say to me will affect me at this point.

Also, since I know you will have questions about my time travel, my time machine rental contract only allowed me one trip to a time prior to 2020. My only two options were, I could kill Hitler or sleep dart Butch Jones as he was about to send in the field goal unit when we were 1cm out against Oklahoma. I don't think I have to say what my decision was.
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Awesome!!!

I am not one to argue against science. Thanks, rifle.

/thread.
 
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#378
#378
MontyPython said:
Former national security adviser John Bolton told Yahoo News on Wednesday that President Trump’s failure to level with the public about the gravity of the coronavirus threat “almost certainly” cost lives and is emblematic of Trump’s tendency to make decisions solely on what “will affect him politically.”

“A real leader knows how to communicate ‘We’ve got a serious problem here and we’re going to address it seriously,’” Bolton said in his interview with the Yahoo News “Skullduggery” podcast. “That doesn’t cause a panic among the American people. They’re not children. But Trump knew that if he were truly candid about the nature of the threat we faced and what might have to happen that he would bear negative consequences.”
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Yes but in fairness you have to subtract the number that Trump personally killed by the number he saved by not letting Bolton bomb baby milk factories
 
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#382
#382
BeecherVol said:
Yeah. Its not as simple as saying, well the rich and middle class investors will lose some money but everybody will live through a crashed economy.
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True. Some hospitals, for example, were at risk of closing doors for good. Just to name an industry most associate with saving lives.
 
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#383
#383
n_huffhines said:
IDK about "incredibly unlikely", but you make a fair point. Cain had time to get more info and make a more informed decision, but that doesn't mean those initial biases weren't still at play. I wouldn't even say "unlikely". How many people do you know who had a strong opinion that covid wasn't a big deal at the start and then did an about-face?
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Plenty, I am one of them, I was thinking this was the next Ebola or at worst H1N1. Never thought I would end up being comfortable with a mask or finding myself giving ground for social distancing. To be honest i do it mostly because my job asks that we do that and I actually respect the people I work for even when I dont agree with them.

More have actually gone the opposite. Pretty much all of my friends are now in the complete "screw it" phase and are pretty liberal. Even my bosses mentioned above have flipped. From overly concerned mom who treated lysol spray like a teenage boy does Axe, to now she wants them in school no mask or distancing.
 
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#385
#385
McDad said:
since huff took me down the hypothetical path, lemme throw this out for fodder:

You're president. Your trusted science team says there is a serious pandemic we must take unprecedented action to save lives. Your economic team says the economy is in free fall and we are on the verge of a financial collapse worse than the Great Depression. Their suggestions to you are in complete opposition to the other's concern.

What, as president, do you do?
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Tell the truth. Say you aren't sure what to do, and, and even if you were, the founders intended federalism to handle questions like this. Leave it up to the states and local governments.
 
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#386
#386
BeecherVol said:
Yeah. Its not as simple as saying, well the rich and middle class investors will lose some money but everybody will live through a crashed economy.
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Hell, the people hurt most by a shutdown are the poor, not middle class and wealthy. Look at where the bulk of the job losses are - hint, it isn't white collar, managerial-type people who can WFH.

I think anybody with a lick of common sense would see that, but no, any argument skeptical of a shutdown was responded with "What a terrible person - the only reason they want the economy open is so the Dow can go up."
 
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#390
#390
NEO said:
A crashed economy would kill more people than Covid could ever dream of.

When your dollar becomes worthless due to default you citizens starve.
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People who operate with "feelings and emotions and opinions" over actual logic and reason always fail to see things as they really are
 
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#392
#392
05_never_again said:
Hell, the people hurt most by a shutdown are the poor, not middle class and wealthy. Look at where the bulk of the job losses are - hint, it isn't white collar, managerial-type people who can WFH.

I think anybody with a lick of common sense would see that, but no, any argument skeptical of a shutdown was responded with "What a terrible person - the only reason they want the economy open is so the Dow can go up."
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Yeah. Its a lot more complex than just virus kills and economy crash doesn't.
 
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#393
#393
n_huffhines said:
Tell the truth. Say you aren't sure what to do, and, and even if you were, the founders intended federalism to handle questions like this. Leave it up to the states and local governments.
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Imagine the run on TP applied to every other product and commodity in our country. I understand your approach, though.
 
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#396
#396
evillawyer said:
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That's a fair cartoon if the virus was accepted as a grave risk in January and February. Instead, politicians of both parties were saying it was like the flu or a bad cold, with some even saying travel bans to China wouldn't work and were xenophobic.
 
#399
#399
McDad said:
Imagine the run on TP applied to every other product and commodity in our country. I understand your approach, though.
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Sounds like economic activity, to me. A run on everything on the TP level probably can't happen, right? People don't have enough disposable income to spread that across a large selection of goods. I can spend but I don't have enough freezer/fridge space to hoard.
 
#400
#400
05_never_again said:
That's a fair cartoon if the virus was accepted as a grave risk in January and February. Instead, politicians of both parties were saying it was like the flu or a bad cold, with some even saying travel bans to China wouldn't work and were xenophobic.
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travel bans to China didn't work because people were flying in from other countries as well. However, since the president knew in February that it was serious, why wouldn't he take it serious. You know you can be serious and not cause panic. Your gymnastic logic can only hold up for so long before it comes crashing down, because what you are basically saying is that you are ok with someone lying to you about a life or death situation. A loved one is gravely ill, would you rather the doctor tell them everything is ok, or be honest?
 
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