TrumPutinGate

[carlos86]

“When CI brings a case to a U.S. Attorney, it is done. It’s wrapped up with a ribbon and a bow. It’s just comprehensive.”
- Martin Sheil, a retired IRS Criminal Investigations agent.

The good thing about this is that Meuller has the same powers as a U.S. attorney. Initiate investigations, subpoena records and bring criminal charges.

 

[MT LeConte]

you are right he never said she was GUILTY, jesus christ fixating on a word much? All he did was outline all the illegal things she ACTUALLY did with the evidence they had.

If you follow this from the beginning it was Hog claiming she was proven GUILTY. I just said she wasn't.

 

[Carl Pickens]

“When CI brings a case to a U.S. Attorney, it is done. It’s wrapped up with a ribbon and a bow. It’s just comprehensive.”
- Martin Sheil, a retired IRS Criminal Investigations agent.

I wonder if they'll use these same guys when they investigate the IRS targeting conservatives and conservative groups?

 

[1972 Grad]

I wonder if they'll use these same guys when they investigate the IRS targeting conservatives and conservative groups?

Nothing to see there.

 

[lawgator1]

I wonder if they'll use these same guys when they investigate the IRS targeting conservatives and conservative groups?

Buuuuuttttt Obama/Clinton ....... whaaaaa

 

[volinbham]

The good thing about this is that Meuller has the same powers as a U.S. attorney. Initiate investigations, subpoena records and bring criminal charges.

the good thing?

call me old fashioned but I like for LE to start with a crime we know happened and investigate it rather than target someone, throw a ton of resources at them and find something (anything) the did wrong.

 

[volinbham]

Looks like the FBI paid the "dossier" guy who was being paid by other groups for doing opposition research. At the same time, they were putting the Clinton investigation (see revelations about Comey) before interviewing any of the key witnesses.

talk about collusion in an election...

 

[Carl Pickens]

Buuuuuttttt Obama/Clinton ....... whaaaaa

I didn't say anything about your fapping idol..,. Just the IRS.

 

[hog88]

[twitter]https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/903394723343237125[/twitter]

So you are admitting this is a witch hunt. Can't get anything on the collusion angle so lets go after taxes. Pathetic!

 

[hog88]

the good thing?

call me old fashioned but I like for LE to start with a crime we know happened and investigate it rather than target someone, throw a ton of resources at them and find something (anything) the did wrong.

You're being totally unreasonable here. The new standard is investigate until you find a crime.

 

[lawgator1]

the good thing?

call me old fashioned but I like for LE to start with a crime we know happened and investigate it rather than target someone, throw a ton of resources at them and find something (anything) the did wrong.

Depends on what it is.

Clearly, if there is evidence of direct quid pro quo with Russia, we need to know that and Trump needs to be removed from office. I assume everyone would agree with that.

Less clear is the consequence that should occur for Trump's effort to block, disrupt, or end the investigation. Personally, I think it should also result in booting him out, but that is my personal opinion based on the politics of it.

If you are okay with 1) Trump and those around him repeatedly failing to disclose contacts and meetings with Russia, until forced to admit them when confronted; 2) Trump repeatedly minimizing his political and business contacts with Russia, again until confronted; 3) Trump helping craft an intentionally misleading reprise of the meeting between son and Russian lawyer to get dirt on Clinton, and 4) Trump trying to manipulate the FBI director and then firing him when he didn't play ball, well, that's on you.

Personally, I think that if you dislike dishonesty and greed in your president, you ought to be taking an honest and objective look at this. He won, his supporters can take some satisfaction in keeping Clinton out of office, but in my view that hardly justifies this very unfortunate result.

 

[volinbham]

Depends on what it is.

Clearly, if there is evidence of direct quid pro quo with Russia, we need to know that and Trump needs to be removed from office. I assume everyone would agree with that.

Less clear is the consequence that should occur for Trump's effort to block, disrupt, or end the investigation. Personally, I think it should also result in booting him out, but that is my personal opinion based on the politics of it.

If you are okay with 1) Trump and those around him repeatedly failing to disclose contacts and meetings with Russia, until forced to admit them when confronted; 2) Trump repeatedly minimizing his political and business contacts with Russia, again until confronted; 3) Trump helping craft an intentionally misleading reprise of the meeting between son and Russian lawyer to get dirt on Clinton, and 4) Trump trying to manipulate the FBI director and then firing him when he didn't play ball, well, that's on you.

Personally, I think that if you dislike dishonesty and greed in your president, you ought to be taking an honest and objective look at this. He won, his supporters can take some satisfaction in keeping Clinton out of office, but in my view that hardly justifies this very unfortunate result.

I've repeatedly said (for more than 8 months) that if there's evidence of direct collusion then let the chips fall where they may.

Dishonesty and greed are not impeachable offenses an using the apparatus of state to punish them is more troubling than the offenses themselves. All POTI have some degree of dishonesty and some degree of greed.

My comment was about the moving into IRS and non-Russian collusion related issues that seem to be cheered on the by the "get Trump" crowd. I think it's a disaster to democracy to dig until you find something, anything to justify the desire to get someone out of office.

So, I'm still waiting for the Russia collusion evidence that apparently is buried so deep that it takes massive resources and time to uncover. Until it arrives I'll continue to point out how so many in this thread are gleeful that our intelligence orgs are digging to find "something" they can nail this guy on. And I'll continue to think that it's absolutely antithetical to the principles this country was founded on.

 

[carlos86]

Looks like the FBI paid the "dossier" guy who was being paid by other groups for doing opposition research. At the same time, they were putting the Clinton investigation (see revelations about Comey) before interviewing any of the key witnesses.

talk about collusion in an election...

I told you guys this months ago. The FBI and CIA back check his sources with theirs and when they started to add up they offered him a job. Then his identity was outed so he was no use to them then.

 

[volinbham]

So you are admitting this is a witch hunt. Can't get anything on the collusion angle so lets go after taxes. Pathetic!

The old Capone trick

 

[volinbham]

I told you guys this months ago. The FBI and CIA back check his sources with theirs and when they started to add up they offered him a job. Then his identity was outed so he was no use to them then.

They were funding a guy doing oppo research. Are you so gung ho about getting Trump that you don't care that our intel agencies are entangling themselves in the election? Clearly they didn't need this guy to do their work.

At a minimum it raises some serious ethical questions no?

Do you honestly believe given what we know about Comey's actions that the FBI was being a completely neutral player here and not putting their thumb on the scales to get the outcome they feel best suited them?

 

[carlos86]

So you are admitting this is a witch hunt. Can't get anything on the collusion angle so lets go after taxes. Pathetic!

The IRS CI guys are helping Andy Weissmann who is leading Mueller's investigation of financial crimes. They are putting pressure on Manafort. It has nothing to do with Trump's taxes at this point.

 

[volinbham]

The IRS CI guys are helping Andy Weissmann who is leading Mueller's investigation of financial crimes. They are putting pressure on Manafort. It has nothing to do with Trump's taxes at this point.

the patsy

Democracy will be saved when Manafort is behind bars. The Podesta Group will continue with their pro-Russia efforts but they're not the target so they can do as they please.

 

[carlos86]

They were funding a guy doing oppo research. Are you so gung ho about getting Trump that you don't care that our intel agencies are entangling themselves in the election? Clearly they didn't need this guy to do their work.

At a minimum it raises some serious ethical questions no?

Do you honestly believe given what we know about Comey's actions that the FBI was being a completely neutral player here and not putting their thumb on the scales to get the outcome they feel best suited them?

Christopher Steele was is a former MI6 agent who worked in Russia and had Russian sources inside the Kremlin and worked with U.S. Intelligence and the military in Afghanistan. He was Alexander Litvinenko case officer and got Litvinenko to give up the intel on Russian intelligence activities world wide. So yes Steele was legit and they had no reason to believe his sources were wrong once they were back up by American intel sources. Comey's actions on Clinton are questionable but his neutrality isn't. He let Trump get elected without telling the public that members of his campaign were under an FBI Counterintelligence investigation.

 

[carlos86]

the patsy

Democracy will be saved when Manafort is behind bars. The Podesta Group will continue with their pro-Russia efforts but they're not the target so they can do as they please.

If Manafort doesn't flip he has 2 options. Jail or he will be on a flight to Ukraine where he will be charged by the Ukrainian Government with Conspiracy, murder, bribery, and money laundering. He will either go to prison there or get knocked off by the FSB. Manafort wants neither.

 

[hog88]

The IRS CI guys are helping Andy Weissmann who is leading Mueller's investigation of financial crimes. They are putting pressure on Manafort. It has nothing to do with Trump's taxes at this point.

So will justice be served and the expense justified by prosecuting Manafort for a tax issue?

 

[carlos86]

So will justice be served and the expense justified by prosecuting Manafort for a tax issue?

Again no one is looking at taxes. A tax crime at this point is a petty crime. They are looking at money laundering. Which is why that ledger found in Ukraine with Manafort name in it is important.

 

[volinbham]

If Manafort doesn't flip he has 2 options. Jail or he will be on a flight to Ukraine where he will be charged by the Ukrainian Government with Conspiracy, murder, bribery, and money laundering. He will either go to prison there or get knocked off by the FSB. Manafort wants neither.

You are assuming he CAN flip. There is an amazing paucity of evidence to date (over 8 months of leaks) suggesting he has something to flip about.

Like I said, he's the government patsy. Lesson, don't get on the wrong side of who the establishment wants in power (or wants out of power).

I have no love for Manafort. I have no love for Trump. In a way I wish he was gone so Pence could take over and salvage this.

That said, I'll never support or condone this type of fishing expedition to remove an elected official; particularly the POTUS.

Funny too that everyone thinks Manafort is such a POS, corrupt guy but their willing to believe every word he says if he implicates Trump.

 

[volinbham]

Again no one is looking at taxes. A tax crime at this point is a petty crime. They are looking at money laundering. Which is why that ledger found in Ukraine with Manafort name in it is important.

And Trump (I assume) had zero to do with that.

Will you believe Manafort if he says Trump did "x" or "y" but it's just Manafort's word?

 

[volinbham]

Carlos - since you are the keeper of the facts on this; at least what's been made public: have the intel agencies claimed that Russia committed the DNC email hack? I know the 4 speaking for 17 have stated that Russia meddled with the election but I can't find anything saying they have stated definitively Russia hacked the DNC (I fully acknowledge I may have missed it).

 

[Obsessed]

Carlos - since you are the keeper of the facts on this; at least what's been made public: have the intel agencies claimed that Russia committed the DNC email hack? I know the 4 speaking for 17 have stated that Russia meddled with the election but I can't find anything saying they have stated definitively Russia hacked the DNC (I fully acknowledge I may have missed it).

The dnc wasn't hacked. Period

The info was leaked. (Which will become more public before long and proof positive collusion between the dems and Russia)