TrumPutinGate

[C-south]

This from the party that hyperventilated with glee over the Starr investigation? Priceless.

There was evidence related to that one.

 

[0nelilreb]

I gave you a like because that was a much more eloquent way of calling me unreasonable than Hogg's method. '72, where you at? Give the man a like.

With it being this close to Christmas I’m trying to be good so Santa will bring me really cool gifts .

 

[hog88]

Is there an easier way to get 5 likes than to just call me unreasonable? '72 is a guarantee. (and to think, he use to be my buddy)

Yes I could post something about LG or just say screw Bama.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

And we've been 100% correct.

the definition of delusional

 

[Franklin Pierce]

 

[Franklin Pierce]

 

[Velo Vol]

Better yet. The Trump appointed United States Attorney for SDNY.

These leftists must be stopped!

 

[evillawyer]

Good thread here by Katyal

 

[RockyTop85]

Except there is good reason to doubt the payments were a crime. The former head of the FEC says their not. Several "legal scholars" say the payments were not criminal so I do hope they charge someone else, would be interesting to see if they would take it in front of a jury.

I don’t know the United States Code like I do the Tennessee Code. I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume Cohen’s lawyers would plead him to that charge if it weren’t a crime, unless there is something worse out there that I don’t know about. Totally possible with that sleaze ball.

Even if the lawyer is willing to do it, a judge absolutely has the power to decline a plea agreement. One situation where that could come up is where the judge hears the factual basis and does not believe it to be a crime. At a guilty plea hearing, a judge has to find the defendant guilty.

In federal court, the judge also sentences the defendant as we saw today. There’s generally not an agreement as to punishment although both sides generally know what to expect and there may be an agreement to file the filing that they made in Flynn’s case asking for a downward departure, but that’s rare, here. There are guidelines for the sentence, but in a case like this, the judge is probably not bound by them.

Tl;dr: A plea is streamlined in that the parties have agreed to what the facts are, but the judge still has to agree that the facts constitute a crime. The judge also didn’t give Cohen probation and his sentence while not impressively long was not lenient.
This judge and this prosecutor and cohen’s attorneys are surely more informed about the specific facts of this case than somebody who went on TV and said it wasn’t a crime.

There is a theoretical aspect to the law that would explain the discrepency. For instance, in some states, if 2 men go to commit a robbery and one of them gets killed, the other is liable for felony murder. In Tennessee there is a case that says that’s not Tennessee’s theory of felony murder. But that case is old and in 1989 TN rewrote the criminal statutes. To my knowledge, there hasn’t been a case to relitigate the issue. A zealous prosecutor could bring a case on those facts, though, and I would feel confident enough to go on TV and say I don’t think it’s a crime.

I certainly wouldn’t advise my client to plead guilty to such a dubious charge, Unless I didn’t believe in the argument that it wasn’t a crime, or there was a good basis to believe something worse would happen to the client if he didn’t plead. Typically, that would mean a different charge, the way the federal system is set up with the discretionary sentencing. As I said, that’s believable with Cohen, but he still has to be guilty of something for this scenario to make sense so still not a witch hunt as to him.

All of that assumes assumes that the prosecutor is crooked enough to allow such a thing which, with respect to Mueller, is still a Fox News Fairy Tale. There’s no proof to suggest that he is corrupt.

In my mind, the biggest remaining question is whether anything can be proven as to the president that merits impeachment. Personally, I want him impeached and would toss him out if the Oval for conspiracy to break the speed limit. Being objective, though, I don’t think campaign finance violations gets it done. As much as it’s been lampooned, Rand Paul has the correct measure of that. I would favor impeachment if collusion or obstruction can be proven and (again, biased) there’s not a doubt in my mind that he intended to obstruct justice by firing Comey.

With respect to collusion, I think the attempt matters more than whether it changed the results of the election. I don’t think the latter has a snowballs chance in hell of being proven.

Just my candid opinions on it.

 

[1972 Grad]

I don’t know the United States Code like I do the Tennessee Code. I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume Cohen’s lawyers would plead him to that charge if it weren’t a crime, unless there is something worse out there that I don’t know about. Totally possible with that sleaze ball.

Even if the lawyer is willing to do it, a judge absolutely has the power to decline a plea agreement. One situation where that could come up is where the judge hears the factual basis and does not believe it to be a crime. At a guilty plea hearing, a judge has to find the defendant guilty.

In federal court, the judge also sentences the defendant as we saw today. There’s generally not an agreement as to punishment although both sides generally know what to expect and there may be an agreement to file the filing that they made in Flynn’s case asking for a downward departure, but that’s rare, here. There are guidelines for the sentence, but in a case like this, the judge is probably not bound by them.

Tl;dr: A plea is streamlined in that the parties have agreed to what the facts are, but the judge still has to agree that the facts constitute a crime. The judge also didn’t give Cohen probation and his sentence while not impressively long was not lenient.
This judge and this prosecutor and cohen’s attorneys are surely more informed about the specific facts of this case than somebody who went on TV and said it wasn’t a crime.

There is a theoretical aspect to the law that would explain the discrepency. For instance, in some states, if 2 men go to commit a robbery and one of them gets killed, the other is liable for felony murder. In Tennessee there is a case that says that’s not Tennessee’s theory of felony murder. But that case is old and in 1989 TN rewrote the criminal statutes. To my knowledge, there hasn’t been a case to relitigate the issue. A zealous prosecutor could bring a case on those facts, though, and I would feel confident enough to go on TV and say I don’t think it’s a crime.

I certainly wouldn’t advise my client to plead guilty to such a dubious charge, Unless I didn’t believe in the argument that it wasn’t a crime, or there was a good basis to believe something worse would happen to the client if he didn’t plead. Typically, that would mean a different charge, the way the federal system is set up with the discretionary sentencing. As I said, that’s believable with Cohen, but he still has to be guilty of something for this scenario to make sense so still not a witch hunt as to him.

All of that assumes assumes that the prosecutor is crooked enough to allow such a thing which, with respect to Mueller, is still a Fox News Fairy Tale. There’s no proof to suggest that he is corrupt.

In my mind, the biggest remaining question is whether anything can be proven as to the president that merits impeachment. Personally, I want him impeached and would toss him out if the Oval for conspiracy to break the speed limit. Being objective, though, I don’t think campaign finance violations gets it done. As much as it’s been lampooned, Rand Paul has the correct measure of that. I would favor impeachment if collusion or obstruction can be proven and (again, biased) there’s not a doubt in my mind that he intended to obstruct justice by firing Comey.

With respect to collusion, I think the attempt matters more than whether it changed the results of the election. I don’t think the latter has a snowballs chance in hell of being proven.

Just my candid opinions on it.

I can't believe that anybody would want a duly elected President thrown out of office for a minor offense. No matter how much I disliked Obama, I wouldn't want to put the country through removing him unless it could be proven that he did something like collaborating with the enemy during wartime or something similarly egregious. You people are selfish.

 

[Velo Vol]

Good thread here by Katyal

I don't know about this point:

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

 

[RockyTop85]

Exactly what crime were they investigating initially? Cause, in case you haven't read the Rosenstein doc, there was extraordinarily broad jurisdiction given to the special counsel and it wasn't based on any one "crime".

Here's what really happened. They went in searching for a crime and happened to find one that also happens to be completely unrelated to Russia.

Back to the speeding analogy: What do you think the police are doing when they pull people over for moving violations? You think they care about writing tickets? Why do you get to drive to work every day like you’re casting for a Fast and Furious sequel, but people who look sketchy driving around during normal work hours or late at night get pulled over for minor violations?

Donald trump, his campaign staff, and their behavior during the campaign and transition was analogous to a bunch of guys driving a beat up car at 3am in a bad neighborhood with purple haze billowing out the cracked windows. Firing Comey was the lane change violation.

This conspiracy theory thing also fails to address the fact that it is his own justice department staffed by his appointees doing the investigation. It also ignores that Mueller has publicly discarded evidence damning to Trump. If this were all a big witch hunt to get the president, they wouldn’t be publicly acknowledging the falsity of portions of this dossier rubbish.

 

[Velo Vol]

I would favor impeachment if collusion or obstruction can be proven and (again, biased) there’s not a doubt in my mind that he intended to obstruct justice by firing Comey.

What about being involved with Russian money laundering?

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

What about being involved with Russian money laundering?

Lol

 

[1972 Grad]

I don’t know the United States Code like I do the Tennessee Code. I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume Cohen’s lawyers would plead him to that charge if it weren’t a crime, unless there is something worse out there that I don’t know about. Totally possible with that sleaze ball.

Even if the lawyer is willing to do it, a judge absolutely has the power to decline a plea agreement. One situation where that could come up is where the judge hears the factual basis and does not believe it to be a crime. At a guilty plea hearing, a judge has to find the defendant guilty.

In federal court, the judge also sentences the defendant as we saw today. There’s generally not an agreement as to punishment although both sides generally know what to expect and there may be an agreement to file the filing that they made in Flynn’s case asking for a downward departure, but that’s rare, here. There are guidelines for the sentence, but in a case like this, the judge is probably not bound by them.

Tl;dr: A plea is streamlined in that the parties have agreed to what the facts are, but the judge still has to agree that the facts constitute a crime. The judge also didn’t give Cohen probation and his sentence while not impressively long was not lenient.
This judge and this prosecutor and cohen’s attorneys are surely more informed about the specific facts of this case than somebody who went on TV and said it wasn’t a crime.

There is a theoretical aspect to the law that would explain the discrepency. For instance, in some states, if 2 men go to commit a robbery and one of them gets killed, the other is liable for felony murder. In Tennessee there is a case that says that’s not Tennessee’s theory of felony murder. But that case is old and in 1989 TN rewrote the criminal statutes. To my knowledge, there hasn’t been a case to relitigate the issue. A zealous prosecutor could bring a case on those facts, though, and I would feel confident enough to go on TV and say I don’t think it’s a crime.

I certainly wouldn’t advise my client to plead guilty to such a dubious charge, Unless I didn’t believe in the argument that it wasn’t a crime, or there was a good basis to believe something worse would happen to the client if he didn’t plead. Typically, that would mean a different charge, the way the federal system is set up with the discretionary sentencing. As I said, that’s believable with Cohen, but he still has to be guilty of something for this scenario to make sense so still not a witch hunt as to him.

All of that assumes assumes that the prosecutor is crooked enough to allow such a thing which, with respect to Mueller, is still a Fox News Fairy Tale. There’s no proof to suggest that he is corrupt.

In my mind, the biggest remaining question is whether anything can be proven as to the president that merits impeachment. Personally, I want him impeached and would toss him out if the Oval for conspiracy to break the speed limit. Being objective, though, I don’t think campaign finance violations gets it done. As much as it’s been lampooned, Rand Paul has the correct measure of that. I would favor impeachment if collusion or obstruction can be proven and (again, biased) there’s not a doubt in my mind that he intended to obstruct justice by firing Comey.

With respect to collusion, I think the attempt matters more than whether it changed the results of the election. I don’t think the latter has a snowballs chance in hell of being proven.

Just my candid opinions on it.

Why? Comey testified that be basically didn't know sh!t about the investigation into Trump or what any of his agents were doing or anything about Christopher Steele. How would it help Trump to get rid of the guy in charge that knew nothing about the investigation?

 

[carlos86]

I can't believe that anybody would want a duly elected President thrown out of office for a minor offense. No matter how much I disliked Obama, I wouldn't want to put the country through removing him unless it could be proven that he did something like collaborating with the enemy during wartime or something similarly egregious. You people are selfish.

When did felonies become minor offenses???

 

[1972 Grad]

When did felonies become minor offenses???

Felony, my ass.

 

[C-south]

What about being involved with Russian money laundering?

Who Hillary? The only obstruction was Comey letting Hillary off after she lied and jeopardized national security. He deserves to be canned. He and Hillary should be the ones begging for plea deals right.

 

[carlos86]

Felony, my ass.

So Michael Cohen didn’t just get 3 years in prison for felony campaign finance violations, tax evasion and bank fraud??? And that was the minimum.

 

[1972 Grad]

So Michael Cohen didn’t just get 3 years in prison for felony campaign finance violations, tax evasion and bank fraud??? And that was the minimum.

Trump has been paying off women for years. Obama paid Rev. Wright $150,000 to lay low in the months before the election. How many go to jail for campaign finance irregularities? Cohen pleaded to that stuff because they have him for something bigger.

 

[Velo Vol]

How would it help Trump to get rid of the guy in charge that knew nothing about the investigation?

Trump admitted that was the reason for the firing. Maybe you should ask him?

 

[1972 Grad]

Trump admitted that was the reason for the firing. Maybe you should ask him?

You libs were begging for Obama to fire him because of the Hillary thing.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

Trump admitted that was the reason for the firing. Maybe you should ask him?

There's not one payment to any woman before he went to office that's going to affect him. As a Billionaire, there's no telling how many blackmailed him because of his money.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

You libs were begging for Obama to fire him because of the Hillary thing.

Thank you 72. Just posted the exact same thing in a different one.