TrumPutinGate

[Septic]

Obama was embarrassing, the only difference is there wasn't a coordinated effort to remove him from office because of it.

LoL

 

[hog88]

I hope your realize that your "lol" replies are taken as your admission that it was a great point to which you have no answer.



Cue the next lol.

Sometimes that is the only reply justified.

 

[hog88]

LoL

This wasn't one.

 

[General Jack]

you also have to factor in the policy decisions he's made that are negative to Russia.

of the whole grand conspiracy the thing I see as most plausible is some sharing of information during the campaign, the absolute least by a long shot is that Trump is a Russian stooge/plant.

The policy decisions were made by the adults in the room. Trump doesn't read or care for details, thus, he couldn't get ahead of those mundanities.

 

[hog88]

So you don't mind him publicly, in front of the whole world, taking the side of an authoritarian who uses assassination and prison to silence his critics, over his own FBI, intelligence agencies and senior defense officials.

There are a thousand better positions or statements that he could have offered.

Its not a binary solution, fawn over Putin or start a war. Trump is a simple-minded infantile narcissist and bully but even he, speaking at this seventh grade level, could have found better words than he did and achieved a better result than he did.

I'm not disagreeing with you that Trump could watch his words among other things.

 

[hog88]

The policy decisions were made by the adults in the room. Trump doesn't read or care for details, thus, he couldn't get ahead of those mundanities.

This is why you can't be taken seriously.

 

[luthervol]

A statement is not evidence in of itself. Need a corroborating witness or some physical evidence.

A statement is evidence.....it may not be "hard" or "irrefutable" evidence, but it is evidence.
Just curious....your personal opinion only....do you think Cohen is lying when he says Trump directed him to pay to have polls rigged?

 

[volinbham]

The policy decisions were made by the adults in the room. Trump doesn't read or care for details, thus, he couldn't get ahead of those mundanities.

Not true - he's shown repeatedly that he often disagrees and sets his direction regardless of what the "adults" say.

Arming Ukraine, pushing the natural gas supply to Europe - two aggressive, anti-Putin moves that the prior POTUS refused to do. Same for some aggressive action we took in Syria against Assad.

Trump isn't a stooge of Russia or anyone; he's a buffoon.

 

[General Jack]

Examples please.

What do you think about trump wanting out of NATO?

 

[volinbham]

A statement is evidence.....it may not be "hard" or "irrefutable" evidence, but it is evidence.
Just curious....your personal opinion only....do you think Cohen is lying when he says Trump directed him to pay to have polls rigged?

There is no question Cohen is lying - the question is what is he lying about and what is he telling the truth about. For this particular instance I can't say which camp this claim falls into. Do I think it's plausible this happened? Absolutely.

 

[volinbham]

What do you think about trump wanting out of NATO?

I don't think he wants out of NATO. I think it's part of the bluster/negotiation style he has. He's continually been trying to reshape the burden the US carries in NATO relative to other members.

 

[General Jack]

Not true - he's shown repeatedly that he often disagrees and sets his direction regardless of what the "adults" say.

Arming Ukraine, pushing the natural gas supply to Europe - two aggressive, anti-Putin moves that the prior POTUS refused to do. Same for some aggressive action we took in Syria against Assad.

Trump isn't a stooge of Russia or anyone; he's a buffoon.

I certainly won't argue that. But I do think Putin has something very embarrassing on trump to warrant the demonstrated behavior.

To split hairs on the first sentence, I agree - but to my point, its only when he's aware of the issue in the first place that he can make a decision.

Its very well known now, but two years ago a sister-in-law of mine working at DHS confided that they had to completely alter daily briefing memos from trump because he tl;dr them. They had to go to bullet points to communicate in a manner the simpleton would understand. So now, instead of thorough briefings with full background, nuance, etc., its effectively an internal tweet.

 

[General Jack]

I don't think he wants out of NATO. I think it's part of the bluster/negotiation style he has. He's continually been trying to reshape the burden the US carries in NATO relative to other members.

Have you seen this?

Aides leak tale of trying to stop Trump from leaving NATO

 

[volinbham]

Have you seen this?

Aides leak tale of trying to stop Trump from leaving NATO

Let me rephrase, I don't think Trump wants out of NATO; particularly because he's being controlled by Putin or because Putin ordered him to.

He thinks it's a bad deal. Obviously the wrong move (buffoon) but not purposely doing the bidding of Putin.

 

[General Jack]

This is why you can't be taken seriously.

What did I say that you can't take seriously? Its very well known trump doesn't care for reading or details, and that there is a large apparatus within the state department and other agencies to keep US interests moving forward.

 

[luthervol]

There is no question Cohen is lying - the question is what is he lying about and what is he telling the truth about. For this particular instance I can't say which camp this claim falls into. Do I think it's plausible this happened? Absolutely.

True. Cohen has a past history of lying. For years that was part of his job description as a Trump lawyer. Everyone knows that Trump directs his lawyers to blatantly lie.
I also believe that most people have a pretty good idea about into which camp this particular claim falls.

 

[General Jack]

Let me rephrase, I don't think Trump wants out of NATO; particularly because he's being controlled by Putin or because Putin ordered him to.

He thinks it's a bad deal. Obviously the wrong move (buffoon) but not purposely doing the bidding of Putin.

How about being manipulated by Putin?

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

Have you seen this?

Aides leak tale of trying to stop Trump from leaving NATO

United States. $686B 71.7%

United Kingdom. $55B. 5.8%

France $46B 4.8%

Germany $45B 4.8%

 

[General Jack]

True. Cohen has a past history of lying. For years that was part of his job description as a Trump lawyer. Everyone knows that Trump directs his lawyers to blatantly lie.
I also believe that most people have a pretty good idea about into which camp this particular claim falls.

And in the bigger picture, the type of people trump surrounds himself with.

He was going to drain the swamp and bring in the best, right?

 

[General Jack]

United States. $686B 71.7%

United Kingdom. $55B. 5.8%

France $46B 4.8%

Germany $45B 4.8%

Thats a fun metric. How about comparing the size of the respective economies, while you're at it to provide a little context.

 

[volinbham]

How about being manipulated by Putin?

manipulated? Not sure what you mean.

I don't think he's being manipulated by Putin any more than Obama was manipulated by him. Putin is shrewd and ruthless. I think he played Obama pretty hard and likely is playing Trump. I have no doubt he would have played Clinton as well.

I'm not buying the conspiracy theory of compromising material motivating Trump's behavior. Maybe I'm wrong but I think there are plenty of other explanations and countervailing facts.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

 

[hog88]

A statement is evidence.....it may not be "hard" or "irrefutable" evidence, but it is evidence.
Just curious....your personal opinion only....do you think Cohen is lying when he says Trump directed him to pay to have polls rigged?

Probably not.

 

[General Jack]

manipulated? Not sure what you mean.

I don't think he's being manipulated by Putin any more than Obama was manipulated by him. Putin is shrewd and ruthless. I think he played Obama pretty hard and likely is playing Trump. I have no doubt he would have played Clinton as well.

I'm not buying the conspiracy theory of compromising material motivating Trump's behavior. Maybe I'm wrong but I think there are plenty of other explanations and countervailing facts.

In general terms, when I say manipulated I'm suggesting "influenced" to make decisions that aren't in the best interest of democracy.

As to the rest of your response, I hope you're right and trump is simply an idiot rather than a manchurian candidate.

 

[volinbham]

Thats a fun metric. How about comparing the size of the respective economies, while you're at it to provide a little context.

Let's.

The US economy is about 5x larger than Germany's. The US pays 15x more then Germany to support NATO.

Further, the NATO treaty calls for spending at least 2% of GDP on funding NATO - several members including Germany pay less than they are obligated to pay (Germany at 1.2; US at 3.6). Only the UK (2.1), Poland (2), Estonia (2.1) and Greece (2.4) met their obligation. This is not a new phenomenon.

Not crazy to say that the deal needs work. It is crazy to seriously suggest leaving if that's not a negotiation ploy. Even if a ploy it's a dangerous game.