Turns out, slavery is good ... for the slaves

[RockyTop85]

Pretty weak IMO


Historical fact, bamawriter. Right?

I don’t think that trying to learn all historical facts is a realistic goal for a grade school level course.

Also, a public, grade school education needs to be understood by people who, for example, struggle with the concept of different nations in Africa or who think that historical facts are variable based on the number of twitter followers of the person who aggregates them.

That being the case, what goes into a grade school history class is essentially triage and somewhat thematic. It’s about learning the “rule” not the “exceptions.”

So, I agree with you that “is this necessary” is a relevant question and “does this fit the theme” would also be a higher consideration than “is it an actual fact.”

As I said before, to me, discussion of success or benefit for slaves/former slaves/progeny seems unnecessary to learn about the historical effect of slavery and more thematically appropriate for a discussion of reconstruction. And it seems to be included there, somewhat. Alternatively, it seems plausible for inclusion in a longer course that can focus on more granular detail. Trying to work it in to a surface level discussion may result in a net negative understanding of history.

 

[bamawriter]

“Historical fact” argument is exactly that, I’m sure you can figure it out

Ah. So "technical" and "historical" are other terms you think are interchangeable.

 

[volinbham]

I don’t think that trying to learn all historical facts is a realistic goal for a grade school level course.

Also, a public, grade school education needs to be understood by people who, for example, struggle with the concept of different nations in Africa or who think that historical facts are variable based on the number of twitter followers of the person who aggregates them.

That being the case, what goes into a grade school history class is essentially triage and somewhat thematic. It’s about learning the “rule” not the “exceptions.”

So, I agree with you that “is this necessary” is a relevant question and “does this fit the theme” would also be a higher consideration than “is it an actual fact.”

As I said before, to me, discussion of success or benefit for slaves/former slaves/progeny seems unnecessary to learn about the historical effect of slavery and more thematically appropriate for a discussion of reconstruction. And it seems to be included there, somewhat. Alternatively, it seems plausible for inclusion in a longer course that can focus on more granular detail. Trying to work it in to a surface level discussion may result in a net negative understanding of history.

agreed

 

[bamawriter]

I don’t think that trying to learn all historical facts is a realistic goal for a grade school level course.

Also, a public, grade school education needs to be understood by people who, for example, struggle with the concept of different nations in Africa or who think that historical facts are variable based on the number of twitter followers of the person who aggregates them.

That being the case, what goes into a grade school history class is essentially triage and somewhat thematic. It’s about learning the “rule” not the “exceptions.”

So, I agree with you that “is this necessary” is a relevant question and “does this fit the theme” would also be a higher consideration than “is it an actual fact.”

As I said before, to me, discussion of success or benefit for slaves/former slaves/progeny seems unnecessary to learn about the historical effect of slavery and more thematically appropriate for a discussion of reconstruction. And it seems to be included there, somewhat. Alternatively, it seems plausible for inclusion in a longer course that can focus on more granular detail. Trying to work it in to a surface level discussion may result in a net negative understanding of history.

That's a legitimate critique.

 

[NashVol11]

Ah. So "technical" and "historical" are other terms you think are interchangeable.

If the best defense you have for teaching about misleading things like the personal benefits from slavery (or the educational value of the Holocaust) is “historical fact”, then yes they 100% are. Next

 

[C-south]

Probably because the state of Israel has been financially propped up by the US for the better half of a century and supplied with billions of dollars' worth of weapons to dispatch any and all immediate threats to their statehood.

Outside of the obvious answer to a stupid question, the Jews faced near cultural extinction... Africans never have.

None of what you said has to do with why Jews have prospered and blacks have not even though you say Jews had it worse. I guess absolutely nothing has been done to provide opportunities to thrive by the US.

 

[bamawriter]

If the best defense you have for teaching about misleading things like the personal benefits from slavery (or the educational value of the Holocaust) is “historical fact”, then yes they 100% are. Next

Let's say that this point gets removed from the curriculum. If a student were to ask "where did the former slaves learn farming/smithing/ranching/etc?" What would be the correct answer?

 

[C-south]

If the best defense you have for teaching about misleading things like the personal benefits from slavery (or the educational value of the Holocaust) is “historical fact”, then yes they 100% are. Next

Just as misleading as saying black people didn’t sell their own people because they didn’t like each other. No s***.

 

[RikidyBones]

I don’t think that trying to learn all historical facts is a realistic goal for a grade school level course.

Also, a public, grade school education needs to be understood by people who, for example, struggle with the concept of different nations in Africa or who think that historical facts are variable based on the number of twitter followers of the person who aggregates them.

That being the case, what goes into a grade school history class is essentially triage and somewhat thematic. It’s about learning the “rule” not the “exceptions.”

So, I agree with you that “is this necessary” is a relevant question and “does this fit the theme” would also be a higher consideration than “is it an actual fact.”

As I said before, to me, discussion of success or benefit for slaves/former slaves/progeny seems unnecessary to learn about the historical effect of slavery and more thematically appropriate for a discussion of reconstruction. And it seems to be included there, somewhat. Alternatively, it seems plausible for inclusion in a longer course that can focus on more granular detail. Trying to work it in to a surface level discussion may result in a net negative understanding of history.

I think it provides further insight into slaves being human, smart, compassionate when that era has a lot of literature stating otherwise. Even though those bills and documents were morally wrong, the discussion of those ideas is necessary to learning about that era (ie 3/5s). If the lesson argues that it was for their own good, then it is off base. I don't see evidence of that. I see evidence of pumping up the former slaves and the good things they were capable of.

The interpretation might be a glass half full, half empty situation though.

 

[McDad]

Students should note that internment camps sheltered many Japanese immigrants from racially motivated violence.

I watched "Finding your Roots" on PBS last week. First time in a long time I watched. Some actress was getting here ancestral story mapped. I had never heard about how badly German immigrants were treated in America during WW1. And not just treated poorly by suspicious neighbors. Institutional poor treatment from national and local governments.

 

[volinbham]

Let's say that this point gets removed from the curriculum. If a student were to ask "where did the former slaves learn farming/smithing/ranching/etc?" What would be the correct answer?

youtube?

 

[bamawriter]

youtube?

That's better than the implied answer: No one knows, and f*** you for asking.

 

[Majors]

when you have to resort to red herrings to make your point - you have jumped the shark.

He got sideways a few pages back.

 

[NashVol11]

Let's say that this point gets removed from the curriculum. If a student were to ask "where did the former slaves learn farming/smithing/ranching/etc?" What would be the correct answer?

From their parents or community members (or, in the case of the examples given by the curriculum writers, from books because they weren’t even born yet during slavery ) try harder

 

[NashVol11]

He got sideways a few pages back.

LOL the person who got destroyed trying to argue that someone born in 1885 was “a slave” thinks I got sideways, that’s cute

 

[bamawriter]

From their parents or community members

"Community member" is a fun euphemism for "slave master."

 

[Majors]

LOL the person who got destroyed trying to argue that someone born in 1885 was “a slave” thinks I got sideways, that’s cute

Destroyed? Citing a single Twitter is far from it. At least BB tries with a valid media news organization. Where did I say a person born in1885 was a slave? Only thing I stated was Dr. Allen calling out Kamala speech and her twisted speech to incite the MSM.

 

[NashVol11]

Let's say that this point gets removed from the curriculum. If a student were to ask "where did the former slaves learn farming/smithing/ranching/etc?" What would be the correct answer?

“Where did Elie Wiesel’s Nobel prize-winning writing career start?”

“The Holocaust”

“Well, put it in the history books, gotta get ahead of hypothetical questions! The Holocaust was bad but it produced great writers! Historical fact!!”

 

[NashVol11]

"Community member" is a fun euphemism for "slave master."

Slave masters by and large didn’t teach a damn thing to their slaves, galaxy brain

 

[85SugarVol]

If you’re talking about a semester-long college course, I can see it. For grade school where they’re going to spend a week or two on the subject, nah.

Yea I just don’t know how much benefit is derived at that age from such a nuanced discussion.

The cost appears to be quite high though.

 

[bamawriter]

Slave masters by and large didn’t teach a damn thing to their slaves, galaxy brain

And here is a good example of how the American educational system is a disaster.

 

[NashVol11]

And here is a good example of how the American educational system is a disaster.

Sure is, we have the “historical facts” guy painting slave owners whipping slaves to near death as benevolent education. Much of what they “learned” was from other Black people

 

[NashVol11]

Hell, we can also say a lot of slaves learned about sex through slavery and leave out the “because of rape” part. Still a historical fact so throw that in history books too

 

[bamawriter]

Sure is, we have the “historical facts” guy painting slave owners whipping slaves to near death as benevolent education. Much of what they “learned” was from other Black people

Speaking of whipping, you've beaten this strawman to death.

 

[hog88]

Someone needs a Snickers.