Turns out, slavery is good ... for the slaves

#101
#101
Vol8188 said:
I don’t understand the problem. You don’t think we should highlight successful black Americans during the era of slavery? I think the obvious answer is yes. The example I gave earlier was the first black captain of the US Navy, Robert Smalls. There’s other stories, as well, but I think it’s a great idea to show kids that even in the worst of circumstances people can overcome.
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Maybe I am understanding the angst now. Leftists now seem to be bought into once a victim, always a victim and one‘s lot can never be improved upon. The idea that people used skills learned while in bondage to their benefit afterward is anathema to the left.
 
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#102
#102
Vol8188 said:
I don’t understand the problem. You don’t think we should highlight successful black Americans during the era of slavery? I think the obvious answer is yes. The example I gave earlier was the first black captain of the US Navy, Robert Smalls. There’s other stories, as well, but I think it’s a great idea to show kids that even in the worst of circumstances people can overcome.
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You genuinely believe this is an attempt to highlight the success of a few former slaves?
 
#103
#103
GroverCleveland said:
Maybe I am understanding the angst now. Leftists now seem to be bought into once a victim, always a victim and one‘s lot can never be improved upon. The idea that people used skills learned while in bondage to their benefit afterward is anathema to the left.
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The other thing they’re missing is the clause in there that states “in some cases”. So they’re not saying “teach kids that learning to plow a field helped blacks people”, but rather “teach them that some (key word) slaves learned skills that enabled them to overcome their situation”
 
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#104
#104
tvolsfan said:
You genuinely believe this is an attempt to highlight the success of a few former slaves?
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Yes. Idk if you’ve read the curriculum but the exact phrase is “in some cases”. So they’re not saying “learning to plow a field helped all slaves”. But rather “some slaves learned skills that enabled them to overcome their situation” such as Captain Smalls.

How do you believe they meant it?
 
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#105
#105
Vol8188 said:
Yes. Idk if you’ve read the curriculum but the exact phrase is “in some cases”. So they’re not saying “learning to plow a field helped all slaves”. But rather “some slaves learned skills that enabled them to overcome their situation” such as Captain Smalls.

How do you believe they meant it?
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I think they meant it as a pat on the head for Cliven Bundy, “slavery wasn’t that bad” types.
 
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#106
#106
GroverCleveland said:
Maybe I am understanding the angst now. Leftists now seem to be bought into once a victim, always a victim and one‘s lot can never be improved upon. The idea that people used skills learned while in bondage to their benefit afterward is anathema to the left.
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It is when it's used to express a sentiment of "it wasn't that bad," which this does.
 
#107
#107
tvolsfan said:
I think they meant it as a pat on the head for Cliven Bundy, “slavery wasn’t that bad” types.
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Seems more like your projecting your opinion of Florida and their governor onto this than what the actual standards say. If they were trying to pretend slavery wasn’t bad, wouldn’t it be reflected in more than just this one standard?

I mean the entire document is over 200 pages
 
#109
#109
Vol8188 said:
Seems more like your projecting your opinion of Florida and their governor onto this than what the actual standards say. If they were trying to pretend slavery wasn’t bad, wouldn’t it be reflected in more than just this one standard?

I mean the entire document is over 200 pages
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If that's what they meant, they would highlight stories of individual freedmen overcoming their brutal, racist upbringing rather than using language to liken it to an internship.
 
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#111
#111
Vol8188 said:
I don’t understand the problem. You don’t think we should highlight successful black Americans during the era of slavery? I think the obvious answer is yes. The example I gave earlier was the first black captain of the US Navy, Robert Smalls. There’s other stories, as well, but I think it’s a great idea to show kids that even in the worst of circumstances people can overcome.
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We already do this; everyone knows who Harriet Tubman is. When you start getting into "these good things happened because of slavery" you are entering extremely dangerous territory
 
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#112
#112
Vol8188 said:
Yes. Idk if you’ve read the curriculum but the exact phrase is “in some cases”. So they’re not saying “learning to plow a field helped all slaves”. But rather “some slaves learned skills that enabled them to overcome their situation” such as Captain Smalls.

How do you believe they meant it?
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Here is the problem with that ... It implies that those slaves could not have acquired those same skills on their own, as free men and women, or from any other source than slave training. To list such a thing as being of "personal benefit" is atrocious. There were no benefits to being a slave.
 
#113
#113
NashVol11 said:
We already do this; everyone knows who Harriet Tubman is. When you start getting into "these good things happened because of slavery" you are entering extremely dangerous territory
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"Sure, the camps were bad. I totally don't condone them. No way. I'm a good guy. But did you know some Jews learned to sew?"
 
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#114
#114
lawgator1 said:
It is when it's used to express a sentiment of "it wasn't that bad," which this does.
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Where does it say that? Have not seen it. So far, all I've seen is people with a political agenda claiming that it says that.

If does, in fact, say what you claim I would agree with you. But to be blunt, I think this is just more BS to gin up and "outrage" people.

I expect that kind of intellectual deficiency out of EL, but got to say LG, I really think you're better than this.
 
#116
#116
tvolsfan said:
I think they meant it as a pat on the head for Cliven Bundy, “slavery wasn’t that bad” types.
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It's important to understand the genesis of this change. Some parents complained their children felt bad after learning about topics such as slavery. This is wrapped up in the parental rights/'dewokeification' legislation.

It largely came about because parents freaked out over their children experiencing empathy. The absolute horror.

I don't necessarily think the new curriculum is egregious, especially as most teachers will make clear there is nothing positive or redeeming about slavery. However, it's also good to understand what birthed this whole thing.

I need to dig deeper into it but there is apparently some sort of both sidesism around race massacres as well.
 
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#117
#117
NashVol11 said:
We already do this; everyone knows who Harriet Tubman is. When you start getting into "these good things happened because of slavery" you are entering extremely dangerous territory
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Especially when those good things could have easily happened anyway. It is being heavily implied that those slaves could have only acquired those useful skills as slaves. It's an offensive premise.
 
#118
#118
BowlBrother85 said:
Especially when those good things could have easily happened anyway. It is being heavily implied that those slaves could have only acquired those useful skills as slaves. It's an offensive premise.
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Yea they would’ve been better off mining cobalt, kidnapping young girls, or being the seller instead of being sold.
 
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#122
#122
BowlBrother85 said:
Here is the problem with that ... It implies that those slaves could not have acquired those same skills on their own, as free men and women, or from any other source than slave training. To list such a thing as being of "personal benefit" is atrocious. There were no benefits to being a slave.
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It does not say that. If someone infers that, it may say more about their state of mind.
 
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#123
#123
gcbvol said:
It's important to understand the genesis of this change. Some parents complained their children felt bad after learning about topics such as slavery. This is wrapped up in the parental rights/'dewokeification' legislation.

It largely came about because parents freaked out over their children experiencing empathy. The absolute horror.

I don't necessarily think the new curriculum is egregious, especially as most teachers will make clear there is nothing positive or redeeming about slavery. However, it's also good to understand what birthed this whole thing.

I need to dig deeper into it but there is apparently some sort of both sidesism around race massacres as well.
Click to expand...
There isn't much language which needs to be taken out, but one thing definitely does .... the "personal benefit" reference.

The acquired skills which became of personal benefit, could have been learned by free men and women. Slavery was not needed.
 
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