Two concerning things about Heupel so far in his tenure here that bother me.

[vol94]

This is part of the reason why UGA has 2 nattys in the last 3 years. Smart off-season moves - coaches and portal.

This

 

[VolDave53]

I wasn't going to but I have no choice. This is another cattleprod worthy post from a key member of the LOTM. This fine poster has brought some interesting concerns.

1) Blind loyalty to Joe Milton Everyone on here, At least those with functioning brain calls, knew that this would be a difficult year. On top of the already present attrition from an offensive side, we lost our starting center, which in Heupel's offensive is a massive issue. It was a concern from Spring training on because they had difficulty in getting anyone to understand the extreme complexity of the position in this offense. Due to the speed, the center calls the bulk of the protections as he is getting over the ball with very little adjustment by the QB. Second, fully realizing that Nico Iamaleava was more talented the Joe Milton, he realized that PUTTING A 6'6" LESS THAN 200 POUND TRUE FRESHMAN QB INTO AN SEC MEATGRINDER WAS REALLY STUPID, made the decision to play the long game and try to succeed with a player he knew could at least survive this rough season and let Nico get a little stronger for next year. We got a really good indication of just how special this QB can be next year. Look at the QBs for UT over the last 50 years and you will find a dozen that were far worse than Joe Milton. This is of course lost on the Legion of the Miserable.

2) The constant diatribe about "loyalty to coaches". This fine example VOL fandom has forgotten a couple of facts.
a) This DC and defensive staff in general was saddled with a non-existent roster when they got here. There were very few scholarship players that were not involved in the idiotic former coach's laughable attempt at cheating. ALL of the higher rated players jumped into the portal and off campus. They had to work with what they had. They tried to undo the so-called coaching from the defensive genius that was Beldar, but were admittedly unable to do so. Also, they were trying to convince recruits that they really wanted to come to play in a defense that would require them to be on the field more than any other team in the country. He is just now starting to get some of the real pieces he wanted into the gameplan.

b) They have now dumped all of the left-over players that they could not fix. We saw a good dose of how good the younger secondary players look at this time, with more growth coming over the offseason. But also lost on this crew.

3) COACH CAN'T RECRUIT
Same old malarky. Amazingly, this is year THREE, not year 5+ This team was under a potential major NCAA penalty that could have prevented post season play at the very least. Saddle that with a new young coach and a team coming off an epically bad season. Did you forget? We were 3 and 7 and looked horrible doing it. Really fertile ground for recruiting. CJH got whatever he could get in the first year, primarily because he didn't have any time to even prepare a war room little less be able to get out and recruit. Each of the next two classes has been trying to get the best available people while operating under the gift from Beldar that keeps on giving.....scholarship restrictions! Also trying to build a resume. It looks to be working as the level of player wanting to come to UT continues to go up.

I know this is going to trigger the whiners of the LOTM, but that is fine. Their constant stream of crap triggered me to the point that I didn't even want to get on this site because I get tired of reading mindless tripe.

(To those who actually know what you are talking about and have functioning brain cells I apologize sincerely for the length and tone of this post) [to the LOTM, I truly could not care less how you feel about it]

Excellent synopsis! I will add: We are still under a scholarship restriction, and have had to deal with the majority of that the last 3 years.

 

[OrangeShades]

I couldn’t agree more. The blind spot with Joe and loyalty to underperforming coaches is the 2 main concerns. I would also add the hesitancy to play underclassmen in certain positions is the other problem I notice.

I like CJH, but if Spurrier or Saban had Nico on the bench I feel almost certain that they would have figured out a way to get him meaningful snaps. Maybe even create a 2 QB scenario.

Can we stop kicking a dead horse? Spurrier, Saban, & Joe are gone. Let's ride this new horse...oh btw it's 2024.

 

[chuck0303]

1. His ridiculous loyalty to Joe Milton as the starter. It’s crazy to think if Milton hadn’t got hurt in 2021 we would have never seen the greatness of Hendon Hooker and as we all
know was clearly the much better QB. We wouldn’t have gone 11-2 last season either. Remember Joe was always Heup’s guy from day one the moment he got here. Hooker was brought here by Pruitt and Jim Chaney. It also makes me wonder if Nico wasn’t ready to start and play earlier in the season based on what I saw in the bowl game. Did Joe have incriminating photos on Heupel or something?

2. Retaining Tim Banks and Wille Martinez for a fourth year. I can maybe roll with bringing Banks back but Willie too I just don’t understand. The secondary and DB’s have not improved and just regressed if anything. He’s a terrible coach that Georgia didn’t want 15 years ago I didn’t want him when he was here with Butch. It’s asinine to retain him another season we have all seen enough and there is enough stats and data since 2021 to see that he needs to go and Banks probably does as well but definitely keep RG he’s the only defensive coach that is earning his money. It just appears that Heupel won’t fire his buddies and unfortunately that’s gonna cost him his job eventually. Highly successful coaches like Kirby and Harbaugh and others know when they need to shake up their staffs and make changes to keep improving and not get stagnant. And if that means firing your friends well so be it, coaching is a business.

YOU feel so strongly about firing Martinez, I think you should take appropriate action and go tell Heupel himself how to run his business, and maybe he will just be so convinced that he'll make you in charge of coaches & player personnel. That's all we hear from you--fire Martinez Fire Martinez. I don't know whether he needs to go or not but for the money the head coach makes I trust he'll make the right decision and change any personnel when HE deems appropriate and I seriously doubt he'll take the advice/opinions from us in the peanut gallery. I certainly hope not.

 

[chuck0303]

This has got to be Willie's last season. That whole group is being replaced. Ofcourse, that could be a reason to give him another year too

Hey, where's our Far Martinez poll? Haven't seen a poll in the past 30 minutes. Surely someone can drum up another useless F------ poll so they can get 5 bazillion clicks.

 

[Pride85]

Prude85, just don’t click on the thread. It’s quite simple.

If I didn't want to click on the thread, I would not have. I can post a rant on the side of the coach to offset the baseless rant against. Are one of the LOTM that agree with this ill conceived whine session?

 

[sjt18]

1. His ridiculous loyalty to Joe Milton as the starter. It’s crazy to think if Milton hadn’t got hurt in 2021 we would have never seen the greatness of Hendon Hooker

Well, the "ridiculous" part is that you think you know what would have happened. Milton got nicked up. Heupel saw Hooker show some things that apparently he had NOT shown in practice. Milton was available the next game. Hooker started. Within the next two weeks, Hooker was named the new starter in spite of Milton being healthy. You can only expect a coach or any leader to make the best decision possible based on the available OBJECTIVE information.

It is MORONIC in the extreme to expect a coach not to use practice performance as their main evidence for determining a starter. You can't just guess that when one guy blows everyone else away in practice that #2 is going to be better. This is an incredibly stupid line of reasoning that I wish you guys would just let go of. It isn't a perfect science. It has happened to other coaches. It will happen again.

MOST OF THE TIME the guy who practices best will perform the best on game day. But there are times when one guy is just an extreme gamer and the other struggles.

Do you REALLY think it is a good idea for a coach to start favoring guys who don't perform as well in practice? That is an absolute CERTAIN way to lose control of the program and demoralize everyone.

 

[vegasvolfan]

1. His ridiculous loyalty to Joe Milton as the starter. It’s crazy to think if Milton hadn’t got hurt in 2021 we would have never seen the greatness of Hendon Hooker and as we all
know was clearly the much better QB. We wouldn’t have gone 11-2 last season either. Remember Joe was always Heup’s guy from day one the moment he got here. Hooker was brought here by Pruitt and Jim Chaney. It also makes me wonder if Nico wasn’t ready to start and play earlier in the season based on what I saw in the bowl game. Did Joe have incriminating photos on Heupel or something?

2. Retaining Tim Banks and Wille Martinez for a fourth year. I can maybe roll with bringing Banks back but Willie too I just don’t understand. The secondary and DB’s have not improved and just regressed if anything. He’s a terrible coach that Georgia didn’t want 15 years ago I didn’t want him when he was here with Butch. It’s asinine to retain him another season we have all seen enough and there is enough stats and data since 2021 to see that he needs to go and Banks probably does as well but definitely keep RG he’s the only defensive coach that is earning his money. It just appears that Heupel won’t fire his buddies and unfortunately that’s gonna cost him his job eventually. Highly successful coaches like Kirby and Harbaugh and others know when they need to shake up their staffs and make changes to keep improving and not get stagnant. And if that means firing your friends well so be it, coaching is a business.

I agree with #1 in reference to Hooker, but no way was Nico ready to go this season well as he was by the end of the season. We would have had a worse record than we did IMO. Nico had an entire season to get as good as he did and I think Milton would have lit Iowa up as well. The games we lost were due to poor line play more than anything else.

It is absolutely not true that our DBs did not improve. In the beginning of the year Hadden was Hadden, but he was being considered NFL potential before getting hurt. GJL was a pleasant addition. I think we had another DB that was coming on strong before getting injured as well.

That said, teams threw for another 850 yards against TN and gave up 6 more TDs in 2022 compared to the 2023 season.

They went from 123rd last year in CFB overall passing defense to 64th this year.

I think the improvements in the secondary would have been much better sans the injuries, but that’s football.

We. were also better in overall defense. We went from 37th to 22nd.

No one should go anywhere.

 

[DarkVolder]

He's a helluva recruiter as well. Reportedly one of the best in the country. It bugged me to read Kirby got him.

Like Georgia needs anymore help with recruiting

 

[Jxn Vol]

If I didn't want to click on the thread, I would not have. I can post a rant on the side of the coach to offset the baseless rant against. Are one of the LOTM that agree with this ill conceived whine session?

Prude85, there is a safe space in the Lady Vols forum. With your history of getting triggered you may need to check it out.

 

[TJSVOLS]

That’s worse. Taking the L from someone you deem unarmed.

No,sometimes you have to consider the source and move on.

 

[eddievols]

1. His ridiculous loyalty to Joe Milton as the starter. It’s crazy to think if Milton hadn’t got hurt in 2021 we would have never seen the greatness of Hendon Hooker and as we all
know was clearly the much better QB. We wouldn’t have gone 11-2 last season either. Remember Joe was always Heup’s guy from day one the moment he got here. Hooker was brought here by Pruitt and Jim Chaney. It also makes me wonder if Nico wasn’t ready to start and play earlier in the season based on what I saw in the bowl game. Did Joe have incriminating photos on Heupel or something?

2. Retaining Tim Banks and Wille Martinez for a fourth year. I can maybe roll with bringing Banks back but Willie too I just don’t understand. The secondary and DB’s have not improved and just regressed if anything. He’s a terrible coach that Georgia didn’t want 15 years ago I didn’t want him when he was here with Butch. It’s asinine to retain him another season we have all seen enough and there is enough stats and data since 2021 to see that he needs to go and Banks probably does as well but definitely keep RG he’s the only defensive coach that is earning his money. It just appears that Heupel won’t fire his buddies and unfortunately that’s gonna cost him his job eventually. Highly successful coaches like Kirby and Harbaugh and others know when they need to shake up their staffs and make changes to keep improving and not get stagnant. And if that means firing your friends well so be it, coaching is a business.

Great post, and sooner or later it will cost him his job !

 

[FollowTheLeader]

Great post, and sooner or later it will cost him his job !

 

[theroyz71]

It’s amazing to me how so many seem to forget that when Hooker came in after Milton was injured, he really did not look much better than Joe. He was extremely fumble prone and inconsistent on his deep balls. There’s a reason Josh Heupel is making millions and you’re on the couch yapping about nothing.

I saw Hooker play at Virginia Tech when my son was a student there. I was not impressed. I had serious doubts that he could be successful here when he took over for Joe.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Correct. Heup never saw HH in a live game until we all did. And once he did, to his credit, he never looked back, even once Joe was healthy.

But, regarding his #2 point...I completely agree...I have no idea how Martinez is still here...or even keeps getting hired at the FBS level.

Then you need to do some football soul searching. The FACT that DW, CJH, and CTB have determined this is the best path should give one motivation to ask more questions not make declarative statements with a few tricky rhetorical questions mixed in.

Bet you don’t go to the ACLU followers for guidance on spiritual matters.

Not risking Nico in a year that has clearly been identified as a physical development year is just lame. His head and his arm were ready, the rest of his long lanky frame not so much. Still not done. Some additional mass is the PLAN I bet before you send him out for a season of snaps.

Proposing sacrificing him for a possible win or two this year is short sighted for a guy with the investment we have in him. To challenge a known QB guru, whose treatment of Nico has helped add a signee of choice, and on the verge of adding another is ludicrous.

 

[claimjumper steve]

I'm not too tolerant of criticisms toward Heupel. As far as I am concerned White, Heupel, Hendon, and Joe gave us our dignity back. For 15 or 20 years I had to mutter in dark corners that I was a Vol fan. I'm glad Heup is under the radar. If Nico is as good as advertised and we get some good receivers, its Katy bar the door again!

 

[Majors]

This is part of the reason why UGA has 2 nattys in the last 3 years. Smart off-season moves - coaches and portal.

Why wasn’t he retained if he’s such a great recruiter? Seems the new staff would have parlayed his “skills” into an easy transition into recruiting the South.

 

[EastTNVol6240]

first off the Nico in the bowl game is not the Nico you would have seen had he started during the season. Secondly, his family had a deal that he would be redshirted.. so who do we start? Third Milton was fine.. what game did he lose us? We would have more likely than not lost more games under Nico than Joe. Y'all act like dude was a scrub or something.

The whining about the defensive coaches is proof of fans that dont know football and just join in the groupthink... someone comes up with some stupid idea it get repeated over and over no matter how untrue it is. When you remember nothing but bad and look for bad of course you'll see things a certain way. I bet you're one of the same guys who swore Hadden was terrible until he got hurt and the defense missed him badly. If we fire these coaches who do we hire to replace them? Do you have available candidates lined up?

2023 PFF scores
Team Grades
Overall: 85.7

Offense: 75.9

Pass: 72.0

Pass blocking: 65.6

Receiving: 69.8

Run: 91.4

Run blocking: 58.1

Defense: 87.5

Run defense: 75.8

Tackling: 75.3

Pass rush: 88.3

Coverage: 89.1

Special teams: 84.6

Proof of “this deal”? Trust me bro?

 

[jason3713]

On the Hooker thing, you just have to understand where it's challenging to pick a starting QB.

Milton clearly is a show stopper in practice. Virtually every practice report we've ever read about him praises him. HH on the other hand, I remember not being impressed by him in the OW game in 2021.

Dobbs was a notoriously bad practicer, but when the lights came on he came alive. HH was at his best under the lights in high pressure situations. JG was phenomenal in practice.

Thats where it gets tough. You have to play the guy that practices the best, until you see the other guy in a high pressure situation and see how he reacts.

People don’t understand this. I had a hard time in the beginning of high school and college. During practice I’m with my friends, working getting better but not trying to kill someone. The only time I went really, really after it is if the coaches got me pissed about something.


Now when the games started I became a different person. I hated everyone and everything. I would be the biggest ass•••• to every walk the earth. That’s what I had to do to be great. If you screwed up then teammates or not I would let you know about it. I’ve cussed a few coaches in the heat of the moment.


If I lived my life or even practiced as the person I was on the field I’d never have a friend or anyone want to be my teammate. There has to be a switch that flips on and off. Coaches don’t always see it until you hit the field in real game time .

There are also people that may be just as good of a player or even better than you but don’t have that switch. When the game starts they can’t become someone else or can’t preform under the pressure. You see it all the time in every level is sports. You will watch a team and then all of the sudden someone will breakout and be great. Everyone complains and wants to know where this guy has been. Why he hasn’t been starting. The coaches just haven’t seen that other person that comes out in some players when the lights come on.

 

[EastTNVol6240]

I wasn't going to but I have no choice. This is another cattleprod worthy post from a key member of the LOTM. This fine poster has brought some interesting concerns.

1) Blind loyalty to Joe Milton Everyone on here, At least those with functioning brain calls, knew that this would be a difficult year. On top of the already present attrition from an offensive side, we lost our starting center, which in Heupel's offensive is a massive issue. It was a concern from Spring training on because they had difficulty in getting anyone to understand the extreme complexity of the position in this offense. Due to the speed, the center calls the bulk of the protections as he is getting over the ball with very little adjustment by the QB. Second, fully realizing that Nico Iamaleava was more talented the Joe Milton, he realized that PUTTING A 6'6" LESS THAN 200 POUND TRUE FRESHMAN QB INTO AN SEC MEATGRINDER WAS REALLY STUPID, made the decision to play the long game and try to succeed with a player he knew could at least survive this rough season and let Nico get a little stronger for next year. We got a really good indication of just how special this QB can be next year. Look at the QBs for UT over the last 50 years and you will find a dozen that were far worse than Joe Milton. This is of course lost on the Legion of the Miserable.

2) The constant diatribe about "loyalty to coaches". This fine example VOL fandom has forgotten a couple of facts.
a) This DC and defensive staff in general was saddled with a non-existent roster when they got here. There were very few scholarship players that were not involved in the idiotic former coach's laughable attempt at cheating. ALL of the higher rated players jumped into the portal and off campus. They had to work with what they had. They tried to undo the so-called coaching from the defensive genius that was Beldar, but were admittedly unable to do so. Also, they were trying to convince recruits that they really wanted to come to play in a defense that would require them to be on the field more than any other team in the country. He is just now starting to get some of the real pieces he wanted into the gameplan.

b) They have now dumped all of the left-over players that they could not fix. We saw a good dose of how good the younger secondary players look at this time, with more growth coming over the offseason. But also lost on this crew.

3) COACH CAN'T RECRUIT
Same old malarky. Amazingly, this is year THREE, not year 5+ This team was under a potential major NCAA penalty that could have prevented post season play at the very least. Saddle that with a new young coach and a team coming off an epically bad season. Did you forget? We were 3 and 7 and looked horrible doing it. Really fertile ground for recruiting. CJH got whatever he could get in the first year, primarily because he didn't have any time to even prepare a war room little less be able to get out and recruit. Each of the next two classes has been trying to get the best available people while operating under the gift from Beldar that keeps on giving.....scholarship restrictions! Also trying to build a resume. It looks to be working as the level of player wanting to come to UT continues to go up.

I know this is going to trigger the whiners of the LOTM, but that is fine. Their constant stream of crap triggered me to the point that I didn't even want to get on this site because I get tired of reading mindless tripe.

(To those who actually know what you are talking about and have functioning brain cells I apologize sincerely for the length and tone of this post) [to the LOTM, I truly could not care less how you feel about it]

Ahh the ages old “we gotta put some meat on that kid” before he plays argument. I agree with most of your post but I’m tired of seeing that silly nonsense. As someone who has formerly dabbled in bodybuilding, I can tell you your fantasy of Nico trotting out at 240 and buff next year is just that, a fantasy. Nico will struggle to put on 15 lbs good weight by next year, IF it’s good weight. Now Big Mac (lorenzen)weight…..anything is possible. So let’s say he puts on 10-12 because that’s reality. What’s that look like spread over a 6’6 frame? Nothing. All that to say if we thought he was better, he should’ve played. I don’t know what was going on in coaches heads as they watched Joe underperform most of the season, but I highly doubt it was “Nico is too little and might get hurt”. We could use that argument next year as well.

 

[joshwa]

Also a confidence builder to the back-up that, the head coach will stick with you through your bad times and good.

 

[OffTackleVol]

Great post, and sooner or later it will cost him his job !

ROTFLMFAO........

 

[OffTackleVol]

I wasn't going to but I have no choice. This is another cattleprod worthy post from a key member of the LOTM. This fine poster has brought some interesting concerns.

1) Blind loyalty to Joe Milton Everyone on here, At least those with functioning brain calls, knew that this would be a difficult year. On top of the already present attrition from an offensive side, we lost our starting center, which in Heupel's offensive is a massive issue. It was a concern from Spring training on because they had difficulty in getting anyone to understand the extreme complexity of the position in this offense. Due to the speed, the center calls the bulk of the protections as he is getting over the ball with very little adjustment by the QB. Second, fully realizing that Nico Iamaleava was more talented the Joe Milton, he realized that PUTTING A 6'6" LESS THAN 200 POUND TRUE FRESHMAN QB INTO AN SEC MEATGRINDER WAS REALLY STUPID, made the decision to play the long game and try to succeed with a player he knew could at least survive this rough season and let Nico get a little stronger for next year. We got a really good indication of just how special this QB can be next year. Look at the QBs for UT over the last 50 years and you will find a dozen that were far worse than Joe Milton. This is of course lost on the Legion of the Miserable.

2) The constant diatribe about "loyalty to coaches". This fine example VOL fandom has forgotten a couple of facts.
a) This DC and defensive staff in general was saddled with a non-existent roster when they got here. There were very few scholarship players that were not involved in the idiotic former coach's laughable attempt at cheating. ALL of the higher rated players jumped into the portal and off campus. They had to work with what they had. They tried to undo the so-called coaching from the defensive genius that was Beldar, but were admittedly unable to do so. Also, they were trying to convince recruits that they really wanted to come to play in a defense that would require them to be on the field more than any other team in the country. He is just now starting to get some of the real pieces he wanted into the gameplan.

b) They have now dumped all of the left-over players that they could not fix. We saw a good dose of how good the younger secondary players look at this time, with more growth coming over the offseason. But also lost on this crew.

3) COACH CAN'T RECRUIT
Same old malarky. Amazingly, this is year THREE, not year 5+ This team was under a potential major NCAA penalty that could have prevented post season play at the very least. Saddle that with a new young coach and a team coming off an epically bad season. Did you forget? We were 3 and 7 and looked horrible doing it. Really fertile ground for recruiting. CJH got whatever he could get in the first year, primarily because he didn't have any time to even prepare a war room little less be able to get out and recruit. Each of the next two classes has been trying to get the best available people while operating under the gift from Beldar that keeps on giving.....scholarship restrictions! Also trying to build a resume. It looks to be working as the level of player wanting to come to UT continues to go up.

I know this is going to trigger the whiners of the LOTM, but that is fine. Their constant stream of crap triggered me to the point that I didn't even want to get on this site because I get tired of reading mindless tripe.

(To those who actually know what you are talking about and have functioning brain cells I apologize sincerely for the length and tone of this post) [to the LOTM, I truly could not care less how you feel about it]

Nice post 85, thanks for taking the time. Don't know if the OP is an adolescent female or 100% troll.

 

[Jxn Vol]

No,sometimes you have to consider the source and move on.

That’s just it. You are not moving on. Bye

 

[Mccage]

I believe that the decision to not play Nico more was to preserve his redshirt. The counter to that would be he will get drafted after his Jr. year, so you aren't gaining anything by redshirting. But, it might be possible you have him for a 3-yr. starter. IMO, it's highly unlikely he would have changed the outcome of any game and any snaps he might have gotten in mop-up wouldn't have been meaningful in terms of development. Also consider he was injured to some degree earlier in the year, so that made the decision to red-shirt more palatable. Another factor: impact it may have had on team

I thought about all this and I understand it. But not playing him this year has the potential to affect next year. 1-2 losses and no playoff.

How much did it affect his bowl game? Tackle play might have entered his mind since Nico was a little light in the britches.