'20 TX QB Haynes King (TAMU Commit)

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#2,301
sjt18 said:
Can I have your source? I have seen that and a few other stats thrown around here. Previously, no one has cited a source. It would also be helpful to know what they called a "drop". For some, it has to be a catchable ball... so it is a judgment call like an error in baseball. For others, if it touches the receiver's hands then it is a drop.... even if it would have been a miracle catch.
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Ron Swanson said:
You think elite HS QB's are afraid of competition? I don't. These kids have done nothing but compete since they were little. And I believe this kid when he says it doesn't affect his decision. I've watched his interviews and read others. He seems like a good kid, genuine down to earth southern boy, telling the truth. But again, maybe he's lying and you're right.
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Actually I think these "elite" QBs dont have to compete for their positions at all growing up. If they are truly an elite talent then there really would be no one to compete against in H.S. Also most perceived elite players, QB or other, are salivated over by H.S. coaches and are given the upper hand against any competition they face because their "upside" is always going to be bigger. He may not be afraid to competition but guys at this level want to play right away and are going to factor competition into the equation.
The fact he hasn't chose yet has to be a good sign for us. If we do sign both, one will be in the transfer portal in 2 years anyway. JMO
 
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#2,303
MDVols said:
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Searched that site and did not find it. I would like a link or info concerning what they call a drop. It would also be useful to know the raw numbers of drops. Obviously from that graph, there are three outliers and everyone else is in a pretty small range. The difference between 12.8% on 246 attempts and 9% is less than one drop per game.
 
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#2,304
Ron Swanson said:
Gut feeling?

Just a gut, but I'm thinking Vols. A&M is the easier decision, yet King is obviously struggling with it. His best relationship seems to be in Knoxville. A&M has proximity and in-state connections upon graduation. He's confident he'll be developed at both.

-Wiltfong
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Johnny Manziel vs. Peyton Manning. Who has better connections after graduation for where this kid wants to go? Hmmm
 
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#2,306
LouderVol said:
most drops in the SEC.
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Nope. Even the data the other guy posted using % did not show UT with the worst drops. Since JG was 14th in attempts among SEC QB's last year, it is mathematically impossible for him to have suffered the most drops.
 
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#2,307
sjt18 said:
Can I have your source? I have seen that and a few other stats thrown around here. Previously, no one has cited a source. It would also be helpful to know what they called a "drop". For some, it has to be a catchable ball... so it is a judgment call like an error in baseball. For others, if it touches the receiver's hands then it is a drop.... even if it would have been a miracle catch.
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Well, the "amazing 50-50" thrower that he us would seem to lend to a few more "drops".
 
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#2,308
bluetick2 said:
There is a reason fromm and tua are where they are on that list.
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For Fromm, he is very good at reading D's and getting a very catchable ball out on time... consistently. I personally think Tua is more of a product of the talent around him.
 
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#2,309
bluetick2 said:
Well, the "amazing 50-50" thrower that he us would seem to lend to a few more "drops".
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That's actually not a terrible point but I've rewatched some games lately. There were some legit drops for sure. There were also passes thrown inaccurately that receivers were able to just get a finger on.
 
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Ron Swanson said:
Looks like this guy is giving ms paint guy a run for his money!


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I still haven't figured out why on earth someone would want there qb to be good at throwing 50-50 balls. I would think you would want the odds to be a lot better than that.
 
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#2,312
sjt18 said:
Here's why I disagree at least to a point. In the season JG split with Dormady, the OL gave up less than 5 sacks with QD then something like 32 once JG took over. He just flat takes too long to make a decision. So I think it is more difficult to know which is which than you do... but am fairly certain both were big issues
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During the split season, Dormady benefitted from a fresher and healthier OL, and a much softer schedule. Guarantano actually ended up with a higher passer rating that season on only 2 more attempts than Dormady and against more SEC opponents. If you think it’s so difficult to know which is which, then how are you so sure that JG “flat takes too long to make a decisions?” Do you have your stopwatch out clocking his snaps? Because it’s not hard to see the OL getting totally blown up off the snap, and how that totally disrupts anything the offense is trying to do. How can you determine that he takes too long to make decisions when he literally has had no time to make decisions?

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sjt18 said:
The two are sometimes not related. UT has had OL's that were terrible at run blocking and good at pass pro.

I won't argue that. But that wasn't the case all the time. There is only so much an OL can do when a QB holds the ball too long and doesn't move in the pocket. I went back for some reason and rewatched the UGA game from last year. For most of the game, UT pressured Fromm more than UGA pressured JG.

No more unfair than to judge an OL when a QB has been as poor in pre-snap and post snap reads as JG has been at times.

You don't have to throw short passes all the time. Cutcliffe's "dink and dunk" with Ainge proved that. But it would help if JG could make hot reads and hit those passes to take pressure off the OL and himself.
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”

Our OL has been piss poor at everything for a couple years now. Point being, we’ve probably had the worst OL in the SEC the last 2 years and historically, probably the worst OL play in UT history over that stretch. Still think it’s unfair to judge JG as a result.

UGA probably just had to rush 4 the whole game. All I know is that the reason UGA blew us out had more to do with the fact that they utterly dominated both lines of scrimmage.

So you are familiar enough with the playbook to not only know what pre-snap and post-snap judgements JG is supposed to make, but to the degree that you can evaluate said judgement as poor? Because I can’t do all that, but I can see the OL getting manhandled by the likes of Chattanooga and somebody in our QB’s face about 1.2 seconds after the snap

For a good example of what happens when you try to make a living off dink and dunk, see UT’s final offensive play of the 2007 SEC Championship game. That Vol OL was much better than the one we’ve been fielding the last couple years, BTW.
 
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sjt18 said:
Can I have your source? I have seen that and a few other stats thrown around here. Previously, no one has cited a source. It would also be helpful to know what they called a "drop". For some, it has to be a catchable ball... so it is a judgment call like an error in baseball. For others, if it touches the receiver's hands then it is a drop.... even if it would have been a miracle catch.
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It's something ESPN/secn talked about multiple times during the season. Whatever metric they used for what counts as a drop would have been consistent. So you quibbling on what counts is irrelevant.

What do you have to prove we have two very good wrs? I bet it's nothing more than two games apiece you will point to.
 
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sjt18 said:
Searched that site and did not find it. I would like a link or info concerning what they call a drop. It would also be useful to know the raw numbers of drops. Obviously from that graph, there are three outliers and everyone else is in a pretty small range. The difference between 12.8% on 246 attempts and 9% is less than one drop per game.
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One more or less drop a game can be a big difference.
 
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bluetick2 said:
I still haven't figured out why on earth someone would want there qb to be good at throwing 50-50 balls. I would think you would want the odds to be a lot better than that.
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When one is given 2 seconds to throw a football, the receivers have not had time to get open unless ther is a big error in coverage. Sometimes being able to throw a 50-50 ball is a blessing. I stll remember the 8 third down and long completions JG had against Auburn. Damn impressive.
 
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#2,319
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sjt18 said:
Nope. Even the data the other guy posted using % did not show UT with the worst drops. Since JG was 14th in attempts among SEC QB's last year, it is mathematically impossible for him to have suffered the most drops.
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https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/t...t-guarantano-sec-qb-being-hurt-most-by-drops/

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Edit: And since I know yer gonna be all like OMG I can't find the metric. They track stats a bit differently. From their site:

Why are your stats wrong?

Yes, we know our stats don’t match up with the numbers you’re seeing elsewhere. There are a number of reasons for this.


Most frequently, especially with common statistics such as rushing and passing yards, it’s because we believe the NCAA’s policy for recording official statistics is archaic, at best, and often just flat out illogical.


The most common question we get is in regards to rushing and passing yards. When our stats differ in these categories it is almost always due to our policies on tap passes and sacks.


Unlike the NCAA, we do not treat sacks as negative rushing yards. Because they’re, well, not running plays.


We also choose to treat tap passes and other short pitches or shovel passes as handoffs rather than passes. The NCAA treats anything that leaves the quarterback’s hand and travels forward as a pass. This is a little more simplistic and easier for them to differentiate, but we feel it doesn’t paint an accurate picture of what happened.
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Would you believe a stat that said as a team we had 14 drops last season? Seems pretty reasonable. And if you take out all the tap passes, short pitches and shovels that CFB filmroom counts as handoffs instead, then JG completed 87 out of 137 attempts. Which means 50 incompletions. 14 of the 50 incompletions were counted as drops, which seems reasonable. So 28% of his incompletions were due to drops which is most in the SEC. I think the biggest issue was the run game was so inept and they didn't let JG throw enough. He was actually pretty effective and efficient when he did. They just didn't let him do it enough.
 
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Haynes King was not only the most athletic quarterback out of the 20 Elite 11 finalists, but had some of the best results among all prospects. At 6-foot-2.5, 189 pounds, King ripped off a 4.52 second 40, 4.02 second shuttle and jumped 36.9 inches. To put his speed and explosion in perspective–the only players to post a better 40, shuttle and vertical were Wesley Steiner and Julian Fleming.

King is one of the more athletic Elite 11 finalists in recent memory along with Justin Fields, who ran a 4.51 second 40, 4.16 second shuttle and jumped 33.2 inches at 222 pounds at the event in the summer of 2017.
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In reference to The opening
- Charles Powers
 
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bluetick2 said:
I still haven't figured out why on earth someone would want there qb to be good at throwing 50-50 balls. I would think you would want the odds to be a lot better than that.
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a 50-50 ball is a type of throw..

in the SEC, a fair amount of throws you make are 50-50 balls since coverage is pretty sticky and pass rush is the best in the country
 
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SLICKYINC said:
In reference to The opening
- Charles Powers
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I guarantee if King was a Vol commit before the Opening and Bailey hadn’t made a decision yet, they would have ripped King about his size...that he isn’t prototypical size and will have to beef up considerably before being a factor at the next level. For those reasons...3 ⭐️
 
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#2,325
Sleegro said:
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/t...t-guarantano-sec-qb-being-hurt-most-by-drops/

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Edit: And since I know yer gonna be all like OMG I can't find the metric. They track stats a bit differently. From their site:



Would you believe a stat that said as a team we had 14 drops last season? Seems pretty reasonable. And if you take out all the tap passes, short pitches and shovels that CFB filmroom counts as handoffs instead, then JG completed 87 out of 137 attempts. Which means 50 incompletions. 14 of the 50 incompletions were counted as drops, which seems reasonable. So 28% of his incompletions were due to drops which is most in the SEC. I think the biggest issue was the run game was so inept and they didn't let JG throw enough. He was actually pretty effective and efficient when he did. They just didn't let him do it enough.
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good stuff. but i'm not sure i would have let him throw it a ton more either. more, yes......how much, that's probably debatable?

there's a lot, imo, that needs to improve in the passing game in general. from play caller, game planning, to qb, to ol/pass protection in general, to Running game, to WR's/TE's....

i think that's part of the problem with us, and this particular debate.....there seems to be annoying need to blame......and lack of any other insight, it's gotta be the guy with the ball in his hands, right?

well, yes, and no....WR's did drop the ball. TE's and OL and RB's did screw up pass protections....JG did miss reads pre snap and take too long to deliver...he did take sacks he shouldn't have...we weren't good at running the ball so defenses could play us a lot more conservatively.......the play calling wasn't alwasy great......etc, etc, etc....

i mean really, we just weren't very good as an offensive football team last season, or the season before for that matter.

none of that is aimed at anyone in particular, just a general commentary on the whole QB debacle of a topic.
 
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