U.S. citizens kidnapped in Mexico

#151
#151
Even if this country got serious about securing our border the drug cartels would still have to be confronted. Doesn’t even have to be about drugs.
 
#152
#152
How about we stop traveling to Mexico/ Cancun etc. That's a start.
It's only a matter of time until the Cartels march into one of these resorts and wipe out 20/30 tourist.
 
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#154
#154
BigOrangeTrain said:
So no justice for those Americans who have died and the two still missing? So screw them?

Hey we are wasting billions upon billions in a country run by a dictator. Why not take those billions and wage war on these cartels that are right at our doorstep?
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I thought we found all 4. One survivor is in critical condition, the other is stable.
 
#155
#155
n_huffhines said:
Are you kidding? Besides being wrong about the gravity of the risk, are you a sociopath?

20-30 million Americans visit Mexico every year and I found there were 75 US citizens who died by homicide in Mexico in 2021. This includes tourists and people living in Mexico. So let's say the average American tourist is in Mexico for 2 weeks. That means the murder rate of US citizens is 9 per 100k annually*. There are at least a dozen US states with higher murder rates.

*My math: 75/(20m/100k)*25
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Going to Matamoros is a bad idea, so I hear. Other parts of Mexico are fine.
 
#157
#157
BigOrangeTrain said:
So no justice for those Americans who have died and the two still missing? So screw them?

Hey we are wasting billions upon billions in a country run by a dictator. Why not take those billions and wage war on these cartels that are right at our doorstep?
Click to expand...

Why not destroy the cartels by taking the money out of their #1 product?
 
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#159
#159
n_huffhines said:
Brittany Griner is home because she's a famous basketball player. You act like there are no gay black people stranded in prison in other counties. The more you talk, the more you embarrass yourself.
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She's not really all that famous except among women's basketball fans, which ain't many. Having her particular demographics got her the attention and effort from the WH. If it had been a straight dude there would have been no trade. But there's a separate thread for that.
 
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#161
#161
hog88 said:
Why not destroy the cartels by taking the money out of their #1 product?
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they will just turn to other lucrative money makers, most likely illicit. Kidnapping is one of those, so we are right back to this problem.
 
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#162
#162
LouderVol said:
they will just turn to other lucrative money makers, most likely illicit. Kidnapping is one of those, so we are right back to this problem.
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Sure they will but there is nothing else they could turn to that generates anywhere near the revenue drugs do. That massive amount of cash enables them to buy politicians and law enforcement on both sides of the border, recruit and arm. Without the protection of both the Mexican and US governments their cash buys the cartels would be at most petty street gangs.
 
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#163
#163
BigOrangeTrain said:
So no justice for those Americans who have died and the two still missing? So screw them?

Hey we are wasting billions upon billions in a country run by a dictator. Why not take those billions and wage war on these cartels that are right at our doorstep?
Click to expand...
What would be justice? 4 people decided to go on a vacay to craphole Mexico for what was likely a cosmetic surgery. How is this a us military go kill the cartels kind of event?
 
#164
#164
Don’t anybody worry the FBI assisting the Mexican government those responsible will be brought to justice. (Sarcasm)
 
#165
#165
AM64 said:
Wonder whether drugs or cash is bulkier, and if the crackdown on money transfers has changed anything? I'm cynical in a lot of ways, but it seems to me that cartels probably love the chaos at the border ... enough to help "encourage" people to leave their homes for a "better life" in the US. The comment used to be that churches and bootleggers wanted to keep counties dry; I'd bet the new variant is churches (and other non-profits/charities) and cartels want to keep the flow of illegals into the US moving. One group finding the path easier through the distraction of border chaos and the other profiting from government funds courtesy of the border chaos.
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I would bet the cash is less cumbersome than the product? Probably harder to detect as well. Can you train a dog to sniff out cash? Idk.

And yea, I’m sure the Cartels just hate all of the chaos at the border.
 
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#166
#166
hog88 said:
Sure they will but there is nothing else they could turn to that generates anywhere near the revenue drugs do. That massive amount of cash enables them to buy politicians and law enforcement on both sides of the border, recruit and arm. Without the protection of both the Mexican and US governments their cash buys the cartels would be at most petty street gangs.
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I wouldnt be so sure. there are plenty of vices out there. Even some things that aren't really vices but come with miles of red tape. Again some would die off from the transition but most would turn to the next item. Yeah it may not be "as" profitable, but there is still tons of money to make illicitly. Never at any time in human history has the profit margins been small enough to threaten the existence of various organized crime syndicates.

Gun running, sex, gambling. and they could always shift away from the mass production of now legal drugs, and go the "designer" route, and offer high end stuff that you can't get in the states. junkies will still need to chase their next high.
 
#167
#167
The cartels have some ownership in the tourism in Mexico, including resorts, casinos, spas, and night clubs.
 
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#168
#168
Yea they aren’t gonna shoot up a tourist trap. That would kill off some large revenue for everyone.
 
#169
#169
BigOrangeTrain said:
So no justice for those Americans who have died and the two still missing? So screw them?

Hey we are wasting billions upon billions in a country run by a dictator. Why not take those billions and wage war on these cartels that are right at our doorstep?
Click to expand...
Are you fine with France droning the Crips in downtown LA if they rob and kill Jean-Pierre from Toulon when he wanders into their territory looking for a baguette?
 
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#170
#170
EasternVol said:
She's not really all that famous except among women's basketball fans, which ain't many. Having her particular demographics got her the attention and effort from the WH. If it had been a straight dude there would have been no trade. But there's a separate thread for that.
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No. Everybody who had been paying attention to sports for the last decade knew who she was. She was maybe the most recognizable women's basketball player in the world. I have watched 0 women's basketball games on TV over that decade and she was on my TV regularly because she's been a popular topic on sports and highlight shows since she was a college freshman. Show me the person who follows sports and was asking last year, "who is Brittany Griner?"
 
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#171
#171
hog88 said:
Why not destroy the cartels by taking the money out of their #1 product?
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Because some people have spent too much time watching Rambo and Steven Seagal movies and not enough time reading basic economic texts. They think that cruise missiles and ST6 can solve any problem with no American casualties. The idea that we could cripple these people without firing a shot isn’t macho enough.
 
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#172
#172
Zues1 said:
How about we stop traveling to Mexico/ Cancun etc. That's a start.
It's only a matter of time until the Cartels march into one of these resorts and wipe out 20/30 tourist.
Click to expand...

Some of that has already happened, but not sure about tourist fatalities as of yet. Running gun battles through Acapulco, gun fight on one of the beaches in Cancun, etc. I MIGHT take the family to Cabo, but nowhere else in Mexico. I’m still amazed we have young Americans that drive through Mexico and camp out in their vans at out of the way beaches.
 
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#173
#173
sonofUT62 said:
Because some people have spent too much time watching Rambo and Steven Seagal movies and not enough time reading basic economic texts. They think that cruise missiles and ST6 can solve any problem with no American casualties. The idea that we could cripple these people without firing a shot isn’t macho enough.
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Very true. We Americans never learn and ignore what's right in front of our faces.
 
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#174
#174
Vol737 said:
Some of that has already happened, but not sure about tourist fatalities as of yet. Running gun battles through Acapulco, gun fight on one of the beaches in Cancun, etc. I MIGHT take the family to Cabo, but nowhere else in Mexico. I’m still amazed we have young Americans that drive through Mexico and camp out in their vans at out of the way beaches.
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It's been several years since I've been in the interior of Mexico but once you got 50-100 miles away from the border it wasn't bad.
 
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#175
#175
Labeling the cartels terorrist ordinations opens up a whole new toolkit, including seizing their assets worldwide.
 
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