UFC Thread

#226
#226
GruVol said:
IMO, if you are a fighter, you should call out the champion. You can't blame Sonnen for taking the title fight, regardless of the circumstances. If the other fighters are upset, then maybe they should have stepped up and offered to fight Jones at UFC 151 when their company needed them. Only one man did, and I think that's one of the reasons why he is being rewarded.
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I don't blame Chael for taking the fight, I blame Dana for giving it too him. So a fighters actual skills shouldn't get him a shot, being a loud mouth idiot should? Maybe after Bones crushes him, he'll call out JDS or GSP get more unwarranted title fights. Though they would both beat him too, so instead maybe he should call out Cruz. Lol
 
#227
#227
I'm going to have to agree with GruVol on this one. Machida and Rua both turned down fighting Jones on short notice. No one wanted a rematch with Evans so soon. Rampage is out. Teixeira has a weaker UFC record than Sonnen. Gustafsson is already in a fight, and only has two decent wins over Matt Hamill and Thiago Silva (who had just returned from suspension). I guess you could give it to Phil Davis, but the UFC wants him more prepared for when he faces Jones so more people will be willing to buy the PPV. Also, you could give it to Griffin but he wont be much better than Sonnen.

Who else really is there for Jones to face. This TUF was originally suppose to be Sonnen and Rampage, but Rampage turned it down. You can't just keep Jones sidelined until all the other LHW have all fought again, so why not schedule this fight.
 
#228
#228
VOLtage said:
I'm going to have to agree with GruVol on this one. Machida and Rua both turned down fighting Jones on short notice. No one wanted a rematch with Evans so soon. Rampage is out. Teixeira has a weaker UFC record than Sonnen. Gustafsson is already in a fight, and only has two decent wins over Matt Hamill and Thiago Silva (who had just returned from suspension). I guess you could give it to Phil Davis, but the UFC wants him more prepared for when he faces Jones so more people will be willing to buy the PPV. Also, you could give it to Griffin but he wont be much better than Sonnen.

Who else really is there for Jones to face. This TUF was originally suppose to be Sonnen and Rampage, but Rampage turned it down. You can't just keep Jones sidelined until all the other LHW have all fought again, so why not schedule this fight.
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I dont have a problem with Sonnen vs Jones as a fight, the problem with it is that its a title fight that Sonnen doesnt deserve AT ALL. If there are no more LHW's left to fight, get a heavyweight to drop weight and fight him, dont move Sonnen up, that BS, IMO
 
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#229
#229
bentenn said:
I dont have a problem with Sonnen vs Jones as a fight, the problem with it is that its a title fight that Sonnen doesnt deserve AT ALL. If there are no more LHW's left to fight, get a heavyweight to drop weight and fight him, dont move Sonnen up, that BS, IMO
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If you had a heavyweight drop down to face Jones for the title, how would that be any different than Sonnen getting a shot?
 
#230
#230
GruVol said:
If you had a heavyweight drop down to face Jones for the title, how would that be any different than Sonnen getting a shot?
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A loser moving up to fight the champ in a bigger weight class cause he cant win in his own weight class.....that'd be like Dooley moving on to be the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys cause he cant win in the SEC. But a heavyweight like Werdum, or Velasquez, or Schaub, or Struve who can drop to LHW will have a better shot at Jones that Sonnen
 
#231
#231
bentenn said:
A loser moving up to fight the champ in a bigger weight class cause he cant win in his own weight class.....that'd be like Dooley moving on to be the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys cause he cant win in the SEC. But a heavyweight like Werdum, or Velasquez, or Schaub, or Struve who can drop to LHW will have a better shot at Jones that Sonnen
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None of those guys are dropping to light heavyweight. I understand you don't like Sonnen, but now you are just reaching.
 
#232
#232
The thing that's killing me is people saying Chael stepped up so he deserves it. Here's thing Hendo was hurt, machida was hurt and didn't wanna take this biggest fight of his life on short notice. Both of those guys know they probably won't get another shot at Jones, same with Shogun. So Chael does what he does and talks, so Dana tries to make the fight, Jones says no. So the short fight business goes out the window at this point. Its going to be months before the fight actually takes place. If Dana would have asked those three guys to fight Jones in a few months they would have said yes. So the short fight argument is mute at this point. Furthermore Teixeira or Gustaffson or Davis would beat sonnen. Matter of fact I'm struggling to think of a lhw that he could actually beat. If somebody can name one reason Chael should get a shot, besides his mouth I'll gladly shut up. One plus to this is after Bones destroys him, he can go back to fighting b level guys. Cause no amount of talking will get him another shot.
 
#234
#234
BadJerry20 said:
The thing that's killing me is people saying Chael stepped up so he deserves it. Here's thing Hendo was hurt, machida was hurt and didn't wanna take this biggest fight of his life on short notice. Both of those guys know they probably won't get another shot at Jones, same with Shogun. So Chael does what he does and talks, so Dana tries to make the fight, Jones says no. So the short fight business goes out the window at this point. Its going to be months before the fight actually takes place. If Dana would have asked those three guys to fight Jones in a few months they would have said yes. So the short fight argument is mute at this point. Furthermore Teixeira or Gustaffson or Davis would beat sonnen. Matter of fact I'm struggling to think of a lhw that he could actually beat. If somebody can name one reason Chael should get a shot, besides his mouth I'll gladly shut up. One plus to this is after Bones destroys him, he can go back to fighting b level guys. Cause no amount of talking will get him another shot.
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I don't think he "deserves" the title shot, but I understand why he is getting it. See my earlier post.

I think the thing on Chael is that his fights aren't exciting compared to other top guys like Silva and Jones. But his style isn't exciting. He is a wrestler.
 
#237
#237
GruVol said:
I don't think he "deserves" the title shot, but I understand why he is getting it. See my earlier post.

I think the thing on Chael is that his fights aren't exciting compared to other top guys like Silva and Jones. But his style isn't exciting. He is a wrestler.
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From a money stand point I get it, as a fan I loathe the decision. Chael isn't exciting compared to most fighters not just top flight guys. Leban, Swick, Sanchez, Guida, etc are examples. Bader, Carwin, Cain are wrestlers that are exciting. Chael isn't exciting cause even when he takes people down he doesn't do damage.
 
#241
#241
GruVol said:
In regards to his record:
Since the end of his first UFC run in 2006, Sonnen has an overall record of 12-4.
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Who cares what he is outside of the UFC? That has no bearing in this discussion. 3 of those wins btw were for Bodog fighting lol
 
#242
#242
BadJerry20 said:
Who cares what he is outside of the UFC? That has no bearing in this discussion. 3 of those wins btw were for Bodog fighting lol
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Just stating his record in the past 6 years. I think that has more bearing than just his UFC record.

Those four losses:

- Paulo Filho. Filho was considered one of the best, if not the best, Middleweight in the world. Filho was 15-0 going in to that fight, and upped his record to 16-0 by defeating Sonnen. Filho would drop his next contest, a defeat at the hands of...Chael Sonnen.

- Demian Maia. Guess who else was undefeated going into their Sonnen fight? If you guessed Maia, then you would be correct. Maia was 10-0 coming into the fight.

- Anderson Silva. The best fighter in the world. Sonnen was the only man to dominate Silva for as long as he did. All the credit in the world to Silva, but Sonnen came damn close to becoming the champion.

I understand that you hate Chael. You hate his smack talk. You hate the fact that he is getting a title shot without having defeated anyone in the light-heavyweight division. You hate that he isn't an exciting fighter. I get all that. But don't discredit him solely based on a "6-5 record." The guy is a damn good fighter.
 
#243
#243
GruVol said:
Just stating his record in the past 6 years. I think that has more bearing than just his UFC record.

Those four losses:

- Paulo Filho. Filho was considered one of the best, if not the best, Middleweight in the world. Filho was 15-0 going in to that fight, and upped his record to 16-0 by defeating Sonnen. Filho would drop his next contest, a defeat at the hands of...Chael Sonnen.

- Demian Maia. Guess who else was undefeated going into their Sonnen fight? If you guessed Maia, then you would be correct. Maia was 10-0 coming into the fight.

- Anderson Silva. The best fighter in the world. Sonnen was the only man to dominate Silva for as long as he did. All the credit in the world to Silva, but Sonnen came damn close to becoming the champion.

I understand that you hate Chael. You hate his smack talk. You hate the fact that he is getting a title shot without having defeated anyone in the light-heavyweight division. You hate that he isn't an exciting fighter. I get all that. But don't discredit him solely based on a "6-5 record." The guy is a damn good fighter.
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And where is Fihlo now, its became fairly clear that Maia is not a top level fighter. The fact that Sonnen did dominate Silva for so long, and after the fight Silvas face looked like the fight just started, shows how little damage Sonnen does. I don't hate Chael, I don't hate the smack talk, I do hate the title shot. We bring up.the 6-5 record to show that in the UFC he isn't elite and doesn't deserve the shot.
 
#246
#246
BadJerry20 said:
And where is Fihlo now, its became fairly clear that Maia is not a top level fighter. The fact that Sonnen did dominate Silva for so long, and after the fight Silvas face looked like the fight just started, shows how little damage Sonnen does. I don't hate Chael, I don't hate the smack talk, I do hate the title shot. We bring up.the 6-5 record to show that in the UFC he isn't elite and doesn't deserve the shot.
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At the time he fought Filho and Maia, they were elite, whether you want to admit that or not. I don't think he deserves the title shot against Jones based on the fact that he hasn't fought anyone at light-heavyweight, but on the other hand, I understand completely why he is getting it.

Sonnen has beaten some really good fighters. I think his "6-5" UFC record is a little misleading.
 
#247
#247
GruVol said:
At the time he fought Filho and Maia, they were elite, whether you want to admit that or not. I don't think he deserves the title shot against Jones based on the fact that he hasn't fought anyone at light-heavyweight, but on the other hand, I understand completely why he is getting it.

Sonnen has beaten some really good fighters. I think his "6-5" UFC record is a little misleading.
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Filho yes, Maia no his bjj was elite, he was seen as an MMA up and comer. You think he should be fighting Jones, I don't. You will pay for the ppv I won't. We can just disagree, cause at this point it feels like a keep or fire Dooley argument. Lol Plus I'm annoyed with myself for talking about the guy this long. No more Chael talk for me, too much other MMA stuff to discuss.

Edit: a bad record is a bad record. Him being finished as opposed to finishing people in the UFC is telling too. Finished 1 person, been finished 4 times.
 
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#248
#248
BadJerry20 said:
Filho yes, Maia no his bjj was elite, he was seen as an MMA up and comer. You think he should be fighting Jones, I don't. You will pay for the ppv I won't. We can just disagree, cause at this point it feels like a keep or fire Dooley argument. Lol Plus I'm annoyed with myself for talking about the guy this long. No more Chael talk for me, too much other MMA stuff to discuss.

Edit: a bad record is a bad record. Him being finished as opposed to finishing people in the UFC is telling too. Finished 1 person, been finished 4 times.
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Wrong. I told you I didn't think he deserved the title shot, mulitiple times actually. My point is that I understand why he is getting it.

In regards to his record, you can't just use his UFC record as a basis on whether or not he is elite. Hell, Jose Aldo was given the UFC featherweight title without having one fight in the UFC. Anderson Silva had ONE UFC fight before getting a title shot.
 
#249
#249
GruVol said:
Wrong. I told you I didn't think he deserved the title shot, mulitiple times actually. My point is that I understand why he is getting it.

In regards to his record, you can't just use his UFC record as a basis on whether or not he is elite. Hell, Jose Aldo was given the UFC featherweight title without having one fight in the UFC. Anderson Silva had ONE UFC fight before getting a title shot.
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And both of those guys are the best in their weight class. And had desyroyed the people they had fought. Bad comparison, some guys have a great Rep coming in to the UFC and deserve it. Reem, Rampage, Shogun, the 2 guys you mentioned. Now if you woulda named Brock I would have been with you. Lol
 
#250
#250
BadJerry20 said:
And both of those guys are the best in their weight class. And had desyroyed the people they had fought. Bad comparison, some guys have a great Rep coming in to the UFC and deserve it. Reem, Rampage, Shogun, the 2 guys you mentioned. Now if you woulda named Brock I would have been with you. Lol
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Sonnen's style, like we have discussed, isn't to "destroy." I think people like you overlook that. If you are going to point out other fighters' reputation outside of the UFC, you need to include Sonnen's record.
 
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