Ut Gets first round bye

#76
#76
TennNC said:
except the fact that they made it further than 99% of their peers.
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Just like a lottery winner is richer than 99% of the populace. Failure to back it up with further accomplishment makes you one thing: A fluke.
 
#77
#77
So, Hat, in your mind, is consistent excellence getting past the Sweet 16 on a semi-regular basis?
 
#78
#78
Oldblood said:
So, Hat, in your mind, is consistent excellence getting past the Sweet 16 on a semi-regular basis?
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Depends on where you coach. The standards at Texas would be different than those at Texas-San Antonio.
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#79
#79
BigPapaVol said:
Look at the senior guards be lost and the utter lack of prior tradition. Took some time to find more. Donovan had Kruger's start to fall back upon. Kruger had none.

There is no remote excuse for Donovan to be this sorry today, but I'm sure you're about to find one.
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Bruce had Buzz's start to fall back on, and still accomplished what he did, but still receives no respect from certain biased posters who are in love Calipari and Huggins and Self, etc.

Its quite funny how arguments are used to back up one's position on the coach they love, but they throw that argument out the window when it involves a coach they don't like, regardless of accomplishments.
 
#80
#80
hatvol96 said:
Without consistent excellence to buttress it, one trip there isn't a mark of anything.
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except, in Pearl's case, it would be the mark of doing something no other coach in this program's history has been able to do.

i say that would be something.
 
#81
#81
PandamoniumReigns said:
Bruce had Buzz's start to fall back on, and still accomplished what he did, but still receives no respect from certain biased posters who are in love Calipari and Huggins and Self, etc.

Its quite funny how arguments are used to back up one's position on the coach they love, but they throw that argument out the window when it involves a coach they don't like, regardless of accomplishments.
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we aren't talking about Bruce. We're talking about Billy Donovan relative to his predecessor and K.

Accomplishment's in basketball, like it or not, are about conference titles and tourney runs. He has won one conference title and made no tourney run of note. He has been to the sweet 16. Comparing that to Calipari, Huggins or Self is absurd.

Buzz's start, while hideous, left Bruce with a very good backcourt and those guys seem to be the drivers of all of his success for right now. He currently has a talented team that can't seem to win without Buzz's guys. What gives?
 
#82
#82
BigPapaVol said:
Plus, he's the guy that followed two nat'l titles, presumably the height of a school's recruiting power, with B2B NIT invites.
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It was extremely hard for Billy D to recruit after their first title when their best six players decided to stay. You know what recruits were saying? "If these guys stay for their junior year, how do we know they won't stay for their senior year?" So to you it may seem like they were at their height of recruiting, but practically, they weren't.
 
#83
#83
Sudeepvol said:
It was extremely hard for Billy D to recruit after their first title when their best six players decided to stay. You know what recruits were saying? "If these guys stay for their junior year, how do we know they won't stay for their senior year?" So to you it may seem like they were at their height of recruiting, but practically, they weren't.
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Any coach who couldn't disavow a recruit of a notion as silly as that one isn't much of a recruiter.
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#84
#84
Sudeepvol said:
It was extremely hard for Billy D to recruit after their first title when their best six players decided to stay. You know what recruits were saying? "If these guys stay for their junior year, how do we know they won't stay for their senior year?" So to you it may seem like they were at their height of recruiting, but practically, they weren't.
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so what's the excuse for the last 2 years. He has recruited a bunch of undersized, generally slow, decent shooting guys and one small forward trying to be a center. I don't get it.
 
#85
#85
hatvol96 said:
Any coach who couldn't disavow a recruit of a notion as silly as that one isn't much of a recruiter.
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honestly, he can thank Buzz Peterson for two of the stalwarts from those two title teams.
 
#86
#86
Bottom line is...when your top 6 players leave and all get drafted in the NBA (and when you lose Huertas) you have a HUGE void to fill. Yeah, maybe he didn't recruit well after that title run, but his recruiting class this year is pretty darn good.
 
#87
#87
Sudeepvol said:
Bottom line is...when your top 6 players leave and all get drafted in the NBA (and when you lose Huertas) you have a HUGE void to fill. Yeah, maybe he didn't recruit well after that title run, but his recruiting class this year is pretty darn good.
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they didn't all get drafted?
 
#88
#88
BigPapaVol said:
It damn sure was. Sans a miracle by Miller, he hauls it home before the first weekend even gets started good.
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I didn't know a GW shot is considered a miracle. By that token, we would likely have many different NC winners.
 
#91
#91
Sudeepvol said:
Ok. Lee Humphrey didn't get drafted. That's not really part of my point. He was still a huge part of those title runs.
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similar to TennNC's off the mark point, it didn't murder K's or Deans Smith's or Knight's, or Calhoun's or Pitino's recruiting to have repeated deep tourney runs.
 
#92
#92
hatvol96 said:
Keep digging. When Donovan is sitting around five years from now still having never advanced past the Sweet 16 since his National Titles, and Self is sitting on another title and at least two Final Fours, this will provide me almost as much fun as pulling up IE 95's proclamations that Nick Saban would make no difference at Alabama.
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I'll quote this later.
 
#93
#93
BigPapaVol said:
similar to TennNC's off the mark point, it didn't murder K's or Deans Smith's or Knight's, or Calhoun's or Pitino's recruiting to have repeated deep tourney runs.
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I will not compare Billy D to those guys you have listed right now. He may not be a top 10 coach right now, but some of you guys are acting like he isn't the best in the SEC. You guys are giving him no respect for winning 2 titles with 3 final four appearances. I don't think ANYONE would've expected him to do that when he took over for Kruger.
 
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#94
#94
BigPapaVol said:
we aren't talking about Bruce. We're talking about Billy Donovan relative to his predecessor and K.

Accomplishment's in basketball, like it or not, are about conference titles and tourney runs. He has won one conference title and made no tourney run of note. He has been to the sweet 16. Comparing that to Calipari, Huggins or Self is absurd.

Buzz's start, while hideous, left Bruce with a very good backcourt and those guys seem to be the drivers of all of his success for right now. He currently has a talented team that can't seem to win without Buzz's guys. What gives?
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Who compared him to Cal, Hug or Self? I didn't.

And last time I checked, Bruce is most likely taking his team "that can't seem to win" to the NCAA, while Billy D and the ever much beloved Gillispie are flirtin heavily with the NIT. What gives?

All I'm saying is people on this board use an argument to fit their own agenda of defending the coach they like and then throw out that very same argument when it can be used in defense of a coach they dislike.

Hat is a prime example of using this tactic.

I personally think Billy D is a good ball coach. Gillispie is a good ball coach, but not as great as people make him out to be. Pearl, also a good coach. Each has their flaws, each has their pros and each has their own style. Comparing them to each other is pointless really.
 
#95
#95
Sudeepvol said:
I'll quote this later.
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Why would you dig up something that will make you look silly? Donovan's 15 minutes are up. Anyone who believes otherwise is welcome to put their money where their mouth is.
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#96
#96
BigPapaVol said:
similar to TennNC's off the mark point, it didn't murder K's or Deans Smith's or Knight's, or Calhoun's or Pitino's recruiting to have repeated deep tourney runs.
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actually, my point was on the mark.

K is one of the most successful coaches by anyone's standards. And his recruiting actually REGRESSED AFTER his greatest successes. But somehow that's okay for K and not okay for BD.

How did Duke do in 1995 and the next couple of years after coming a shot or two from winning it all in 1994?

Most coaches don't win a NC. Let alone 2 NCs. And most coaches don't take their team to the tourney 8 straight years with a Runner-Up and a couple Sweet 16s mixed in there too. And there's only one coach to my knowledge who has won more than 2 in a row -- i.e. had sustained success at that level.

Bashing a coach with that resume just sounds desperate and really pathetic.
 
#97
#97
TennNC said:
actually, my point was on the mark.

K is one of the most successful coaches by anyone's standards. And his recruiting actually REGRESSED AFTER his greatest successes. But somehow that's okay for K and not okay for BD.

How did Duke do in 1995 and the next couple of years after coming a shot or two from winning it all in 1994?

Most coaches don't win a NC. Let alone 2 NCs. And most coaches don't take their team to the tourney 8 straight years with a Runner-Up and a couple Sweet 16s mixed in there too. And there's only one coach to my knowledge who has won more than 2 in a row -- i.e. had sustained success at that level.

Bashing a coach with that resume just sounds desperate and really pathetic.
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When Donovan's resume is not significantly better in five years, we'll see who looks pathetic.
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#98
#98
Florida is not a Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Indiana, or UCONN. It's no where near as easy to recruit to Gainesville as it is to those places I just listed. Considering the large number of NBA talent Billy D has produced over the years, to say he is not a good recruiter is absolutely absurd.
 
#99
#99
Sudeepvol said:
Florida is not a Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Indiana, or UCONN. It's no where near as easy to recruit to Gainesville as it is to those places I just listed. Considering the large number of NBA talent Billy D has produced over the years, to say he is not a good recruiter is absolutely absurd.
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You're the one who said he wasn't a good enough recruiter to disavow recruits of the idiotic notion that Brewer and Horford might return for their senior season, not me.
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#100
#100
TennNC said:
actually, my point was on the mark.

K is one of the most successful coaches by anyone's standards. And his recruiting actually REGRESSED AFTER his greatest successes. But somehow that's okay for K and not okay for BD.

How did Duke do in 1995 and the next couple of years after coming a shot or two from winning it all in 1994?

Most coaches don't win a NC. Let alone 2 NCs. And most coaches don't take their team to the tourney 8 straight years with a Runner-Up and a couple Sweet 16s mixed in there too. And there's only one coach to my knowledge who has won more than 2 in a row -- i.e. had sustained success at that level.

Bashing a coach with that resume just sounds desperate and really pathetic.
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the point is definitely off the mark. While I would expect a one or two year limited slide, based upon losing a group of upperclassmen, those other guys generally had something in the hopper as a means back to the top. Donovan doesn't have that or anything close to it. Remind which of K's groups was relegated to back to back NITs? How about Knight's? What about Pitino's? Maybe Dean Smith's? How about Roy Williams'? What about Calipari? Maybe throw in Self?

Clearly there is room to come down, but falling off the mountain speaks very loudly.

There are large numbers of coaches with lesser resumes that I would hire in a heartbeat over Donovan.
 
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