UT under potential NCAA investigation for NIL

#901
#901
DaddyChad said:
Again you’re not seeing the end here. This isn’t about Tennessee it’s about NIL. Tennessee is just the highest profile target that the NCAA had the most leverage on. It does not end with Tennessee. Any program that benefitted from nil is a target.
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if other schools think the NCAA aren't looking into them next, they are kidding themselves

this has got to stop and the universities need to join forces here for the right things moving forward
 
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#904
#904
butchna said:
Conference agreements trump all that. You’re interjecting doomsday scenarios when there’s billions of dollars that says sanity prevails.
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Negative. Federal Law is EXACTLY what the NCAA has been fighting and losing. The NCAA had PLENTY of team agreements in place. They lost.

You think the SEC is going to win after the NCAA is losing left, right, and center in the courts?

Why?
 
#905
#905
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
No. Not at all. It's been dirty for decades. Players have been being paid for a long time.

The problem is the SCOTUS is about to be involved and declare players employees.

That destroys the athletic department at small schools, most schools actually, and essentially forces a switch to a pro league.

UT and others are faced with the questions: Do we want to own a pro sports organization? Should a college own a pro sports organization? How are we going to pay the tennis team? Is this worth the trouble? Aren't we an educational institution?
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That’s the slippery slope that the entire College and University landscape found itself in when sports became the behemoths that started funding all kinds of things across campus and salaries reached some lofty heights for those involved in them. I think that’s why many institutions embraced NIL as the solution that kept the good times rolling and made things somewhat more “fair” for the athletes.

Don’t get me wrong, the NCAA needs to die and go away. They’ve been as crooked and at fault for this mess than anyone else in the equation. But there are going to be widespread repercussions as this thing picks up pace and is litigated out. You bring up some really good points in your last paragraph and they are something that we are going to have to consider - and not just Tennessee - but college athletics as a whole.
 
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#910
#910
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
No. Not at all. It's been dirty for decades. Players have been being paid for a long time.

The problem is the SCOTUS is about to be involved and declare players employees.

That destroys the athletic department at small schools, most schools actually, and essentially forces a switch to a pro league.

UT and others are faced with the questions: Do we want to own a pro sports organization? Should a college own a pro sports organization? How are we going to pay the tennis team? Is this worth the trouble? Aren't we an educational institution?
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Oh bull! Take a trip to Europe someday and check out the scene surrounding villages and their local teams. It’s vibrant, electric and fully supported by the local economy…what’s the difference between that and FCS schools? If you’ve ever viewed a North Dakota State traveling caravan, you’re left wondering what you’ve just witnessed. Ray Croc paved the way more than a half century ago whilst working as a franchise owner for the McDonald Brothers, that the biggest chip you have in a corporation is the STAGE. In his case he purchased the LAND/PROPERTY of all the franchises and used it to squeeze the Brothers out. In the NFL, why do the owners become billionaires many times over when the STARS are the product? They own the arenas, marketing and BROADCASTING RIGHTS. Same with the conferences. They’ll maintain the current model…with all non-revenue producing sports, under the auspice of its collegiate STAGE. If anything, the elimination of the hypocrisy will enhance the money and quality.
 
#911
#911
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Negative. Federal Law is EXACTLY what the NCAA has been fighting and losing. The NCAA had PLENTY of team agreements in place. They lost.

You think the SEC is going to win after the NCAA is losing left, right, and center in the courts?

Why?
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Yes.

Because they’re not fighting compensation…dating back to the beginning of this farce.
 
#912
#912
DooleyOrangePants said:
That’s the slippery slope that the entire College and University landscape found itself in when the sports became the behemoths that started funding all kinds of things across campus and salaries reached some lofty heights for those involved in them. I think that’s why many institutions embraced NIL as the solution that kept the good times rolling and made things somewhat more “fair” for the athletes.

Don’t get me wrong, the NCAA needs to die and go away. They’ve been as crooked and at fault for this mess than anyone else in the equation. But there are going to be widespread repercussions as this thing picks up pace and is litigated out. You bring up some really good points in your last paragraph and they are something that we are going to have to consider - and not just Tennessee - but college athletics as a whole.
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Since I saw the law reviews of Alston v NCAA, I've been saying "just let the NCAA hold on until I'm drooling down my chin and all that."

It's very much in the interest of college athletics for the NCAA to go down slow. I'm not at all defending their attack on TN but the "Burn It All Down" sentiment needs to be looked at from the idea of what the replacement will be.

Right now, the NCAA is in place and lousy and useless but there's not a good way to create a new organization like it. Yeah, the NCAA is likely in violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act and has been for decades BUT it's still there.

I don't see creating a new college admin body that is in violation of Sherman, that is.... a new organization that isn't a pro league compensating players, unionized, collective bargaining, free agency rules, a draft of some kind, etc, etc.

I rather like college football. I like pro football too, but I like the spirit of campus football. I just don't think it can remain attached to the schools easily AND fulfill the mission of the institutions to promote education. I don't think colleges need to be in the pro sports business.

Aside from that, the sadness of smaller schools being squeezed out financially leaves out many, many athletes who'd benefit from the college athletic experience.
 
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#913
#913
butchna said:
Oh bull! Take a trip to Europe someday and check out the scene surrounding villages and their local teams. It’s vibrant, electric and fully supported by the local economy…what’s the difference between that and FCS schools? If you’ve ever viewed a North Dakota State traveling caravan, you’re left wondering what you’ve just witnessed. Ray Croc paved the way more than a half century ago whilst working as a franchise owner for the McDonald Brothers, that the biggest chip you have in a corporation is the STAGE. In his case he purchased the LAND/PROPERTY of all the franchises and used it to squeeze the Brothers out. In the NFL, why do the owners become billionaires many times over when the STARS are the product? They own the arenas, marketing and BROADCASTING RIGHTS. Same with the conferences. They’ll maintain the current model…with all non-revenue producing sports, under the auspice of its collegiate STAGE. If anything, the elimination of the hypocrisy will enhance the money and quality.
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Those are local teams, not connected to the schools. I don't doubt the spirit and interest but maybe you don't feel the pull of my own memories of being a student, seeing athletes, having classes with them, feeling a little like "a part of the whole thing." I've not got great words for it but there's something about the connection to the school that's different than a connection to the Titans.
 
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#915
#915
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Since I saw the law reviews of Alston v NCAA, I've been saying "just let the NCAA hold on until I'm drooling down my chin and all that."

It's very much in the interest of college athletics for the NCAA to go down slow. I'm not at all defending their attack on TN but the "Burn It All Down" sentiment needs to be looked at from the idea of what the replacement will be.

Right now, the NCAA is in place and lousy and useless but there's not a good way to create a new organization like it. Yeah, the NCAA is likely in violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act and has been for decades BUT it's still there.

I don't see creating a new college admin body that is in violation of Sherman, that is.... a new organization that isn't a pro league compensating players, unionized, collective bargaining, free agency rules, a draft of some kind, etc, etc.

I rather like college football. I like pro football too, but I like the spirit of campus football. I just don't think it can remain attached to the schools easily AND fulfill the mission of the institutions to promote education. I don't think colleges need to be in the pro sports business.

Aside from that, the sadness of smaller schools being squeezed out financially leaves out many, many athletes who'd benefit from the college athletic experience.
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NCAA has been in violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act since its inception. It slid under the radar or was looked at with a wink and a nod for many years, until college athletics became the bank that prints money practically at will.

They’ve only got themselves to blame. There have been many attempts to bring in compensation for players in many different forms that they shot down themselves. Instead of loosening their stranglehold and coming to the table to find a solution - an equitable solution - they went the other way and tried to tighten down further. NIL just blew the cover completely off their good ol boy monopoly.

I’m not sure what will take its place or what form it will take once this entire thing is settled. We have to hope that something doesn’t try to rush in and try to fill the void that could be worse (to be fair, not much could be worse than how the NCAA has run things for the past 40 years or so). Universities are going to be presented with some issues that they’ve likely never considered or pretended would never happen. But I do feel like this is the powder keg being lit and there’s no coming back at this stage.

As for me, I’m an accelerationist when it comes to the NCAA’s demise. While recognizing it could be worse, the only way things get better is to get them out of the picture at least in their current form. Having said that, I think we should all be prepared for the changes we are going to see to the sports and the pageantry that we love so much, not all of them good.
 
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#917
#917
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Those are local teams, not connected to the schools. I don't doubt the spirit and interest but maybe you don't feel the pull of my own memories of being a student, seeing athletes, having classes with them, feeling a little like "a part of the whole thing." I've not got great words for it but there's something about the connection to the school that's different than a connection to the Titans.
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You’re missing the point! There is no SCHOOL in those examples…just COMMUNITY. And is your student memory made more fond by the LOCALE than the board of trustees? You think University of Phoenix alums dress up and sing their fight song?
 
#918
#918
butchna said:
Yes.

Because they’re not fighting compensation…dating back to the beginning of this farce.
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So you're saying the SEC and B1G and others should form a pro league? If you're compensating players to play a sport, they are pro athletes.

You're ready for the Vols to have unions, a draft, free agency rules, etc which are present in virtually every pro league? So, as pros how are you going to tell an athlete his "eligibility" expired? What about a guy dropping from the NFL to the SEC? You want to fight that legal battle over age discrimination?

The idea of a pro league essentially destroys lots of things about the college game which are unique. Think it through.
 
#921
#921
turbovol said:
I chuckle at all the people who apparently want to see the NCAA disappear. Yea, and who's going to set rules and boundaries for college sports? Or do you not want any boundaries or rules, which is the case now? Now, college sports is a bloody, chaotic mess--ask the coaches. Ask the ADs and conference commissioners who've been imploring Congress to get involved. Let's ask the fans and alums of the Pac12.
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Most of us would be happy with NCAA if they were

A). Consistent across rules, rulings and penalties
B). Used common sense when setting rules
C) Had a reasonable timeline. Michigan should not have even been competing for championship

if they can’t do the above, they need to be fixed however sometimes you have to burn it down and start over
 
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#922
#922
butchna said:
You’re missing the point! There is no SCHOOL in those examples…just COMMUNITY. And is your student memory made more fond by the LOCALE than the board of trustees? You think University of Phoenix alums dress up and sing their fight song?
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As I said, then you're just creating a competitive league against the NFL, NBA, etc.

You're not going to be able to "recruit" players as we've seen. You're not going to be able to control how long they're on the team. You'll have 17yo guys playing with 35yo guys, as you see in Europe.

So yeah, if you're ready for the European Futbol model, I'll give it a whirl if the quality is there.
 
#924
#924
SGidds said:
I think the worst case scenario is a post-season ban. The players aren’t sticking around for meangless games anymore, and they can transfer freely. If the NCAA says that Tennessee is ineligible for the college football playoff, not only will recruiting be next-to-impossible, but the roster will be decimated by the transfer portal.
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Didn’t they say that they couldn’t keep Michigan out of CFP?
 
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