UT under potential NCAA investigation for NIL

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I want there to be some clear rules everyone follows

the problem with that is, no one will and then the NCAA will cherry-pick who they come after like exhibit A

also the problem with that is there could be lawsuits saying those rules hurt some players from making more

The NCAA is in a no win situation at this point. EVERY move it makes generates a lawsuit at this point because everyone knows it's about to die and can't win.

15 seconds after the NCAA is dead, VN will be full of posts asking "Who killed college football?"

The NCAA sucks. They've sucked and mismanaged college athletics for decades and decades BUT they are the only thing holding college football from becoming completely a professional league.

I'm not screaming "don't sue them about this" but I am screaming "think about what happens if you kill the NCAA completely."

 

[Franklin_Vol09]

The only solution I see is this:

Collegiate players Union
These athletes become employees of the University franchise.

Under the terms of employment, they can’t receive income from other sources.

What you pay a player can’t go down but can be reevaluated 1 time during your collegiate career to go up. You can transfer 1 time (special rules can be established for other situations).
Title 9 goes out the window because they are paid student athletes now.

A bargaining agreement of a salary cap.

 

[volinSmyrna]

This whole debacle is an illustration of why the NCAA no longer works.

I've seen TONS of complaints that "the NIL and the portal are ruining football" and "somebody needs to do something about this NIL and portal madness" and "this is out of control and there's no way this should be like this."

So, the NCAA starts doing stuff to dampen NIL activity.

"OMG! Those bastards are trying to wreck football!" "You can't control NIL and they need to quit picking on us!" "Sue them out of existence!"

So, what do you guys want?

Do you want the Wild West of teams being able to recruit "by any means necessary" or do you want a body to have some oversight?

They should have done something 5 years ago when all of this was coming like a freight train and everybody knew it. They chose the "head-in-sand" method of dealing with it. Once the toothpaste escaped the tube, they tried to throw some very vague/inconsistent "guidelines" out. They should have set firm rules in place before it ever got to the Supreme Court. Once SCOTUS said in their ruling not to try to limit the earning potential of individuals, the NCCAA lost all ability to regulate things.

 

[MHS Rebel]

I'll be completely pissed if we accept any...ANY. "punishment" this time around.

If UT doesn't accept it, then will we see a court room? Or will UT just ignore it and move on?

 

[volstudent26]

I have seen 2 legal point of views from multiple NIL Lawyers.

One is that this is a relative slam dunk for Tennessee because the NCAA is in clear violation of the Sherman anti trust act and some labor board rules.

on the other hands I have seen other NIL lawyers say we are bound by NCAA decisions because we are a voluntary member school and that they have the authority to impose the Nil guidelines they are coming after us for.

This looks like it could turn into a long legal battel where courts even have to debate the meaning of the terms amateurism and Name image and likeness themselves.

anyways whatever happens go damn vols.

 

[butchna]

If Nico had signed with bama under the same circumstances at same rumored numbers, do you think the NCAA would be on their front porch right now?

Saban bragged about Bryce Young’s haul when this was in its infancy…nary a NCAA visit.

 

[hog88]

I thought name, image, likeness would be contracts made directly with the player from businesses for use of their name on jerseys or actually doing commercials. It was immediately turned into group licensing allowing multiple businesses to consolidate funds and payout to all the players and no validation of NIL used. It then took multiple turns from there playing players multi-million dollar contracts before they play a down. There is basically no end in sight as creativity and greed work hand in hand. Its like a pro team with no salary cap. This is now a business that is self destructing before our eyes. The flood has already begun and now the NCAA wants to build a dam, they will be crushed.

I think it will eventually self correct. People/businesses will get tired of donating to the collectives in order to land Johnny 5* only to have him transfer in a year for more money. It will take some time but the market will correct itself and we don't need the NCAA or congress getting involved.

 

[brentcontractor]

The Plowman letter states that the NCAA should discuss with all the members and come up with an agreement that will work. NCAA however did an emergency meeting with 23 votes and is retroactively selectively enforcing.

 

[Snapper58]

I have seen 2 legal point of views from multiple NIL Lawyers.

One is that this is a relative slam dunk for Tennessee because the NCAA is in clear violation of the Sherman anti trust act and some labor board rules.

on the other hands I have seen other NIL lawyers say we are bound by NCAA decisions because we are a voluntary member school and that they have the authority to impose the Nil guidelines they are coming after us for.

This looks like it could turn into a long legal battel where courts even have to debate the meaning of the terms amateurism and Name image and likeness themselves.

anyways whatever happens go damn vols.

Not being a lawer, but dealing with TSSAA in the past, it is true that it would be a voluntary membership, but I think from what I have read in the Nico situation would be trying to backdate rulings. If the ruling that made what Nico did against the rules but the rule came out after the fact, you can't look into a crystal ball to know what the rule will be in the future.

 

[DaddyChad]

one question for some of the lawyers on here, if the NCAA hasn't either formally charged Tennessee with a violation or deemed us guilty of a violation, will the courts even rule on this case until Tennessee has actually been harmed?

The case of the state went into motion after the FSU punishment. Virginia and Tennessee have already filed suit; bullet out of the gun already in the air not coming back. The university hasn’t sued yet that I know of nor has Spyre. As soon as a notice is received from the NCAA expect a few lawsuits on behalf of both of those entities and probably Nico would sue as well. Not a lawyer btw though.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

They should have done something 5 years ago when all of this was coming like a freight train and everybody knew it. They chose the "head-in-sand" method of dealing with it. Once the toothpaste escaped the tube, they tried to throw some very vague/inconsistent "guidelines" out. They should have set firm rules in place before it ever got to the Supreme Court. Once SCOTUS said in their ruling not to try to limit the earning potential of individuals, the NCCAA lost all ability to regulate things.

Agreed. I completely see how the NCAA screwed all of this up and should've been working on a Plan B solution if they lost in court. They didn't.

Now, however, we're facing a situation where without the NCAA, college athletics may very well become a full on pro league associated with the NFL and NBA.

I don't think the schools can get away with creating an NCAA 2.0 that violates Antitrust Law.

I don't think there's a better replacement. I'm open to ideas but forming a new organization which doesn't compensate players at market value may not be legally allowed at this point.

I just want people to step back from wanting the head of the NCAA and think about where we can go if they're gone.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

This whole debacle is an illustration of why the NCAA no longer works.

I've seen TONS of complaints that "the NIL and the portal are ruining football" and "somebody needs to do something about this NIL and portal madness" and "this is out of control and there's no way this should be like this."

So, the NCAA starts doing stuff to dampen NIL activity.

"OMG! Those bastards are trying to wreck football!" "You can't control NIL and they need to quit picking on us!" "Sue them out of existence!"

So, what do you guys want?

Do you want the Wild West of teams being able to recruit "by any means necessary" or do you want a body to have some oversight?

Oversight on NIL is not permissible. They have the power to regulate the member institutions and nothing more.

 

[brentcontractor]

Saban bragged about Bryce Young’s haul when this was in its infancy…nary a NCAA visit.

Good point. Remember the brag. Inconsistent enforcement. NCAA is an abitrary association that is weaponized to destroy programs that are not in power in thier organization.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The only solution I see is this:

Collegiate players Union
These athletes become employees of the University franchise.

Under the terms of employment, they can’t receive income from other sources.

What you pay a player can’t go down but can be reevaluated 1 time during your collegiate career to go up. You can transfer 1 time (special rules can be established for other situations).
Title 9 goes out the window because they are paid student athletes now.

A bargaining agreement of a salary cap.

There is no legal way to tell an American, "you work for us and can't make money doing a commercial or autograph signing or appearance."

You can tell them they can't play football or basketball elsewhere, but you can't control their private right to have a second income.

 

[davethevol]

one question for some of the lawyers on here, if the NCAA hasn't either formally charged Tennessee with a violation or deemed us guilty of a violation, will the courts even rule on this case until Tennessee has actually been harmed?

It sounds like they’re already tampering behind the scenes. The laws are pretty clear regarding this, and it is illegal for them to affect a players income at this point. It’s not just a civil issue, but criminal too, especially if they’re conspiring with certain universities to be selective with investigations, which will come out once it gets to court. The NCAA will most likely try to keep this from ending up in a courtroom, because they know this will be bad for them.

 

[GameTime]

If Nico had signed with bama under the same circumstances at same rumored numbers, do you think the NCAA would be on their front porch right now?

No, the NCAA would have provided the pens for the signing....We looked like an easy target that was starting to get some fine talent here....There is more to this than we can see.

 

[Snapper58]

It sounds like they’re already tampering behind the scenes. The laws are pretty clear regarding this, and it is illegal for them to affect a players income at this point. It’s not just a civil issue, but criminal too, especially if they’re conspiring with certain universities to be selective with investigations, which will come out once it gets to court. The NCAA will most likely try to keep this from ending up in a courtroom, because they know this will be bad for them.

So this is kinda like heading it off at the pass and thinking that it will stop the investigation before it goes before any court?

 

[GameTime]

There is more to this than we can see...

 

[MHS Rebel]

Anyone else notice that all this came to a head AFTER Saban retired?

 

[DaddyChad]

Saban bragged about Bryce Young’s haul when this was in its infancy…nary a NCAA visit.

Kids don’t have to be paid to play for Bama. That’s paraphrased from what an actual ncaa guy has said in the past. Herbstreit said the NIL wasn’t put into place to level the playing field but to reward players like Bryce Young and player at elite programs like Ohio State. This is the opinion of the ncaa and the media. They’re fine with kids getting paid after they’ve signed with the schools like Bama, Ohio State, Notre Dame etc. Bama losing a top QB (now a second committed) to Tennessee; well hell we got to look into this. This can’t be right.

NCAA is an organization of incompetence. Of slow implementation of clear rules for an evolving landscape. They’re also an organization of retroactive enforcement of rules. Also an organization that has shown favoritism, inconsistent punishments, inconsistent investigation practices. System has to evolve or be burned to the ground.

 

[davethevol]

So this is kinda like heading it off at the pass and thinking that it will stop the investigation before it goes before any court?

I think it’s a bit of that, but also as someone pointed out, standing up against a tyranny. The NCAA doesn’t seem to answer to anyone despite the “schools all vote on the rules” schtick. Not uncommon for a bureaucracy to get out of control and needing to be dismantled. When they refuse to meet with the head of a major university, there’s a real problem.

 

[Franklin_Vol09]

There is no legal way to tell an American, "you work for us and can't make money doing a commercial or autograph signing or appearance."

You can tell them they can't play football or basketball elsewhere, but you can't control their private right to have a second income.

You missed the part of collective bargaining with a players union. You 100 percent can. As a term of employment, you can put this in a contract.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You missed the part of collective bargaining with a players union. You 100 percent can. As a term of employment, you can put this in a contract.

Name a pro league where the players have bargained away their rights to make commercials.

I'll wait.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Love the Training Day reference

 

[Snapper58]

Name a pro league where the players have bargained away their rights to make commercials.

I'll wait.

Don't they have some restrictions on the type of product they support under the moral or conduct unbecoming? I don't see any NFL players promoting guns.