UT under potential NCAA investigation for NIL

[Sara Clark]

Full on fight mode! I wish one of you Knoxville locals would/could go.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Don't they have some restrictions on the type of product they support under the moral or conduct unbecoming? I don't see any NFL players promoting guns.

Yes. But the players would be absolutely brain dead to bargain away their ability to earn outside income.

Gronk said he never touched his NFL salary and lived entirely off of his endorsement and commercial money.

It's not realistic to think players are going to agree to "I'm making all his NIL money, but I'm going to quit that and just take a salary from the school." Ridiculous.

 

[PalmettoStateVol]

This whole debacle is an illustration of why the NCAA no longer works.

I've seen TONS of complaints that "the NIL and the portal are ruining football" and "somebody needs to do something about this NIL and portal madness" and "this is out of control and there's no way this should be like this."

So, the NCAA starts doing stuff to dampen NIL activity.

"OMG! Those bastards are trying to wreck football!" "You can't control NIL and they need to quit picking on us!" "Sue them out of existence!"

So, what do you guys want?

Do you want the Wild West of teams being able to recruit "by any means necessary" or do you want a body to have some oversight?

Of course people want oversight. However, you can't say that Rule A, that just became a rule 5 minutes ago, is enforceable on a program for something they did 2 years ago. That's not how that works. The NCAA has had ample opportunity to come up with a set of rules, regulations, and definitions to rein in the NIL and transfer landscapes of college football. They've failed miserably as they always do. I am a huge advocate of college football needing oversight for NIL and the Transfer Portal. Even those who are hell bent on seeing unproven 17-18 year old's get paid multimillion dollar contracts before they even play a down in college can agree on that. But, they have to decide on those rules, regulations and definitions and then decide on a date of when those rules will henceforth be administered and programs will abide by them. The NCAA trying to retroactively enforce rules concerning NIL collectives when there were no rules is just another reason they won't be around much longer as you alluded to in your post. The NCAA is a dead man walking at this point. They definitely didn't have the best or brightest arguing their case when this went before the SCOTUS a few years ago and it's basically sealed their fate.

 

[Franklin_Vol09]

Name a pro league where the players have bargained away their rights to make commercials.

I'll wait.

Dude, you aren’t as smart as you think you are. Your snarky comment is douche baggery as well.

There is nothing written in Pro League contracts about commercials and the ability to do them or not.

You CAN write that into a contract with a collegiate league. It’s a different league with a different set of rules for employment. Players CHOOSE to abide by the rules of the league or choose not to play in the league.

 

[LowKey]

50 pages in 2 days. We should all collaborate on a novel.

Title: "NCAA has nil to do with N.I.L."

It's a work in progress.

 

[Franklin_Vol09]

Yes. But the players would be absolutely brain dead to bargain away their ability to earn outside income.

Gronk said he never touched his NFL salary and lived entirely off of his endorsement and commercial money.

It's not realistic to think players are going to agree to "I'm making all his NIL money, but I'm going to quit that and just take a salary from the school." Ridiculous.

I don’t think you understand the “terms of employment” and the right to decide to play or not. If you set up a system of employment, and you don’t agree to the rules of that employment, you don’t have to enter into the agreement but the league isn’t obligated to hire you as well.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Of course people want oversight. However, you can't say that Rule A, that just became a rule 5 minutes ago, is enforceable on a program for something they did 2 years ago. That's not how that works. The NCAA has had ample opportunity to come up with a set of rules, regulations, and definitions to rein in the NIL and transfer landscapes of college football. They've failed miserably as they always do. I am a huge advocate of college football needing oversight for NIL and the Transfer Portal. Even those who are hell bent on seeing unproven 17-18 year old's get paid multimillion dollar contracts before they even play a down in college can agree on that. But, they have to decide on those rules, regulations and definitions and then decide on a date of when those rules will henceforth be administered and programs will abide by them. The NCAA trying to retroactively enforce rules concerning NIL collectives when there were no rules is just another reason they won't be around much longer as you alluded to in your post. The NCAA is a dead man walking at this point. They definitely didn't have the best or brightest arguing their case when this went before the SCOTUS a few years ago and it's basically sealed their fate.

Agree entirely, but can you imagine an NCAA replacement being created that DOESN'T involve the SCOTUS ruling that the "student-athlete" model is in violation of Antitrust Law.

Basically, the NCAA sucks and sucks badly BUT so far the courts have allowed it to exist and it provides us with non-professional, non-employee college football.

I don't think the schools will be allowed to create a new organization which doesn't pay players at the market rate and consider them employees. Again, SCOTUS strongly hinted the NCAA would not stand a court challenge. It's unlikely ANY college organization can be created which isn't a pro league.

That's the rub. The NCAA sucks but the alternative to the NCAA is professional football. The NCAA needs to survive and YES IT NEEDS TO CHANGE.

Killing the NCAA completely, which all the lawsuits are likely to do, also kills the college football model many of us enjoy.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Dude, you aren’t as smart as you think you are. Your snarky comment is douche baggery as well.

There is nothing written in Pro League contracts about commercials and the ability to do them or not.

You CAN write that into a contract with a collegiate league. It’s a different league with a different set of rules for employment. Players CHOOSE to abide by the rules of the league or choose not to play in the league.

You CAN but no union is going to take that deal. It's crazy. Why would they,?

 

[Voluble2]

You CAN write that into a contract with a collegiate league. It’s a different league with a different set of rules for employment. Players CHOOSE to abide by the rules of the league or choose not to play in the league.

Only if the athletes collectively bargain those rights way, otherwise you are committing an anti-trust violation.

The players would be foolish to bargain that right away so it is a non-starter.

 

[Franklin_Vol09]

You CAN but no union is going to take that deal. It's crazy. Why would they,?

You seem to be under the illusion that an athlete has a RIGHT to play college sports.

If they don’t want to abide by the terms of employment, they can enter the pro leagues under their terms

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You seem to be under the illusion that an athlete has a RIGHT to play college sports.

If they don’t want to abide by the terms of employment, they can enter the pro leagues under their terms

I'm just looking at this realistically. No union is going to bargain away the financial interest of its members.

Unless the salaries make up for the NIL value the players can receive, it's not in the interest of the players to give up their rights.

The schools NEED to have a good product and those players provide that product. That's the crux of all this. If the players give up rights......what do they get?

 

[Switch 625]

 

[Volfan76]

They did this to TAKE spotlight off of the crooked Michigan winning the CFP and Harbaugh leaving punishment free.

This is all a distraction and they thought wounded UT would agree to minor penalties like FSU to make it go away. They are trying to kill the collectives one by one.

Mark the tape I have 3 predictions:

1) Florida AG joins suit by Monday EOD
2) Spyre fills their own lawsuit by EOW next week
3) Texas and/or Ohio AG joins lawsuit by EOW next week

NCAA miscalculated how UT would handle this one based on being afraid of LOI. They never expected this kind of swift response before they had even officially handed down the Allegations.

I agree. I don't know about how soon it will happen, but I suspect that a lot of schools are looking for a fight with the NCAA to hitch their wagons to.

 

[DaddyChad]

This whole debacle is an illustration of why the NCAA no longer works.

I've seen TONS of complaints that "the NIL and the portal are ruining football" and "somebody needs to do something about this NIL and portal madness" and "this is out of control and there's no way this should be like this."

So, the NCAA starts doing stuff to dampen NIL activity.

"OMG! Those bastards are trying to wreck football!" "You can't control NIL and they need to quit picking on us!" "Sue them out of existence!"

So, what do you guys want?

Do you want the Wild West of teams being able to recruit "by any means necessary" or do you want a body to have some oversight?

Stuff to dampen NIL activity? Do you have your head in the sand or do realize they’re trying to punish for violation of rules that were not set in place at the time?

I realize some of our fans don’t like NIL. That’s fine but it’s not going away. Even if Tennessee gets the death penalty, NIL will still be here. Unless the Supreme Court reverses it ruling NIL isn’t ever going away. It can be brought under more control by working with member universities but ncaa doesn’t seem interested in that.

What ncaa is trying right now will be nuked in court bc it’s limiting market student athletes can use for NIL deals. There’s not a conceivable way that flys.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Stuff to dampen NIL activity? Do you have your head in the sand or do realize they’re trying to punish for violation of rules that were not set in place at the time?

I realize some of our fans don’t like NIL. That’s fine but it’s not going away. Even if Tennessee gets the death penalty, NIL will still be here. Unless the Supreme Court reverses it ruling NIL isn’t ever going away. It can be brought under more control by working with member universities but ncaa doesn’t seem interested in that.

What ncaa is trying right now will be nuked in court bc it’s limiting market student athletes can use for NIL deals. There’s not a conceivable way that flys.

That's exactly what I'm saying. The NCAA can't move in either direction.

The schools won't come to the table on NIL because there's zero incentive for them to accept NIL regulation or rules. When the NCAA moves in that direction, they get sued.

When the NCAA relaxes regulations, everyone complains there's zero oversight and the NCAA is useless and NIL and the portal are out of control.

The NCAA cannot move BUT they are the only thing holding college football together as college football and not pro football.

It's not sustainable BUT taking the axe to it will completely change the game to a pro league.

 

[davethevol]

That's exactly what I'm saying. The NCAA can't move in either direction.

The schools won't come to the table on NIL because there's zero incentive for them to accept NIL regulation or rules. When the NCAA moves in that direction, they get sued.

When the NCAA relaxes regulations, everyone complains there's zero oversight and the NCAA is useless and NIL and the portal are out of control.

The NCAA cannot move BUT they are the only thing holding college football together as college football and not pro football.

It's not sustainable BUT taking the axe to it will completely change the game to a pro league.

The only thing the NCAA should be concerned with is transcripts. Did an athlete maintain a 2.0? Then they get to play. That’s it.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The only thing the NCAA should be concerned with is transcripts. Did an athlete maintain a 2.0? Then they get to play. That’s it.

So, Michigan stealing signs is not a problem?

The NCAA should just say, "The MI players all are eligible. It's not my problem."

 

[Dadof2Vols]

After reading the NCAA response to the lawsuit, I don't see fault with them this time around. I have already posted that those whining about the kids getting a piece of the capitalism pie, is nothing new. But that, as usual, the fat cats will manipulate the NIL system to their advantage and exploit the players. The NCAA seems to be pretty much sating the same thing and trying to head off such exploitation. I may not like the NCAA, but I know the history of the country and its local, state, and federal level oligarchs' history of screwing over underprivileged folks. Whether they be minorities, poor White folks, women, or mules. from time to time, you see the same attitude among members of this very board as well. Maybe for once, the NCAA got it right.

NCAA Releases Statement Responding To Tennessee's Lawsuit | Rocky Top Insider

The NCAA released a statement on Wednesday evening responding to the Commonwealth of Virginia and State of Tennessee's lawsuit against NCAA.

www.rockytopinsider.com

Then answer two questions.

1) Do you believe a player can get same NIL deal at UT that they would at MTSU?
2) Do you accept job offers and negotiate your salary after you have signed the offer contract?

If the answer to either one is No then you are going against what the NCAA is asking these kids to do.

The NCAA wants to restrict these kids from getting the best NIL deal. They do not want them seeing what their value is to different perspective universities before deciding on the school for them.

If you really believe that Nico would sell as many Nico shirts at MTSU as he will at UT then I have some beautiful swamp land perfect to build a house on in Florida for you.

 

[Franklin_Vol09]

That's exactly what I'm saying. The NCAA can't move in either direction.

The schools won't come to the table on NIL because there's zero incentive for them to accept NIL regulation or rules. When the NCAA moves in that direction, they get sued.

When the NCAA relaxes regulations, everyone complains there's zero oversight and the NCAA is useless and NIL and the portal are out of control.

The NCAA cannot move BUT they are the only thing holding college football together as college football and not pro football.

It's not sustainable BUT taking the axe to it will completely change the game to a pro league.

It’s already a pro league.

I’m not going to demean you but clearly you have never run a business or negotiated.

A happy medium will exist of what a good salary cap should be OR some base level income. It will have to be high enough to draw the best highschool athletes but low enough to allow more schools to participate.

Smarter people than me who look at this stuff for a living have said exactly what I’m saying. I’m not coming up with a profound plan that Franklin Vol just came up with. This has been discussed by all the big players.

You will probably see a super conference in regards to football or some super league. Top 64 university football programs or something like that. Networks would love it because it means more viewers and no games like UT vs. Martin.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

Again, I don't think it reaches the court room. Doesn't have to. The threat of investigation and penalties will have an impact. Guarantee you that if Nico were to be ruled "ineligible", it would only be at UT. He'd be free to move to a program like bama tho and be immediately eligible. Maybe this is an attempt to push Nico into the next portal? Even if it doesn't happen, this is certainly being used against us in recruiting and if still up in the air, the next portal window.

Until this thing moves to a court room, the NCAA can just sit and let it stew with the only damage being to UT. I'd be willing to bet the farm that this never reaches a court. I'll be completely pissed if we accept any...ANY.."punishment" this time around. Again, I have to question why it seems like UT gets so much attention from the NCAA? Maybe I'm not paying attention to other programs problems, but it seems like when we start to get things rolling in our athletics programs, the NCAA shows up on our doorstep. Why is that? Are we just slow learners or is there something else at play?

You do know that the NCAA has been stupid enough to take several bad cases to court and lose here the last few years.

Their arrogance is astoundingly dumb.

 

[volbound1700]

Agree entirely, but can you imagine an NCAA replacement being created that DOESN'T involve the SCOTUS ruling that the "student-athlete" model is in violation of Antitrust Law.

Basically, the NCAA sucks and sucks badly BUT so far the courts have allowed it to exist and it provides us with non-professional, non-employee college football.

I don't think the schools will be allowed to create a new organization which doesn't pay players at the market rate and consider them employees. Again, SCOTUS strongly hinted the NCAA would not stand a court challenge. It's unlikely ANY college organization can be created which isn't a pro league.

That's the rub. The NCAA sucks but the alternative to the NCAA is professional football. The NCAA needs to survive and YES IT NEEDS TO CHANGE.

Killing the NCAA completely, which all the lawsuits are likely to do, also kills the college football model many of us enjoy.

The football model that I enjoyed started dying in the 2010s... it was slow but it happened. Saban killed it to be honest with his "system" whether it was truly corrupt or not, it killed parity in the sport and drove alot of the insanity we are facing today.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

It’s already a pro league.

I’m not going to demean you but clearly you have never run a business or negotiated.

A happy medium will exist of what a good salary cap should be OR some base level income. It will have to be high enough to draw the best highschool athletes but low enough to allow more schools to participate.

Smarter people than me who look at this stuff for a living have said exactly what I’m saying. I’m not coming up with a profound plan that Franklin Vol just came up with. This has been discussed by all the big players.

You will probably see a super conference in regards to football or some super league. Top 64 university football programs or something like that. Networks would love it because it means more viewers and no games like UT vs. Martin.

Do you think UT SHOULD be in the pro sports business? Do you think that's part of the mission of a university?

If we accept it's a pro league in college, then we should be ready to accept lawsuits from the tennis, swim, etc players because they're NOT being paid. Do they not put in the same work?

A pro business DOESN'T have to make money, so you can't say "Tennis doesn't bring in money" because that's immaterial. Should UT drop all non-revenue sports or pay all athletes?

 

[DaddyChad]

That's exactly what I'm saying. The NCAA can't move in either direction.

The schools won't come to the table on NIL because there's zero incentive for them to accept NIL regulation or rules. When the NCAA moves in that direction, they get sued.

When the NCAA relaxes regulations, everyone complains there's zero oversight and the NCAA is useless and NIL and the portal are out of control.

The NCAA cannot move BUT they are the only thing holding college football together as college football and not pro football.

It's not sustainable BUT taking the axe to it will completely change the game to a pro league.

Dude idk what to tell you if you think the NCAA is the only thing holding college football together. We find ourselves in this mess due to their incompetence. If an organized compensation had been put in place years earlier likely you never see NIL. Once NIL came about the NCAA was slowwwww to implement any rules governing it. They’ve for years been corrupt and incompetent.

 

[Sara Clark]

 

[Franklin_Vol09]

Do you think UT SHOULD be in the pro sports business? Do you think that's part of the mission of a university?

If we accept it's a pro league in college, then we should be ready to accept lawsuits from the tennis, swim, etc players because they're NOT being paid. Do they not put in the same work?

A pro business DOESN'T have to make money, so you can't say "Tennis doesn't bring in money" because that's immaterial. Should UT drop all non-revenue sports or pay all athletes?

You are wanting to restructure like the old NCAA while simultaneously arguing that players won’t accept lower pay.

Pick your poison man. And if you don’t think that NIL has already made it a pro style system…you are crazy.