UT under potential NCAA investigation for NIL

[VOLINVONORE]

Yeah, expecting Congress to get it right and somehow save the "amateurness" of college is not something I'd bet the cost of a candybar on.

I'm afraid the amateur horse is out of the barn when it comes to college sports.

An Antitrust Exemption MIGHT keep the courts at bay but all those pro leagues ACCEPT that they're pro leagues.

The NCAA and schools aren't EXACTLY like other pro leagues and sorting out what they are and what they aren't and which schools are businesses and which are "old school" college athletics should've been going on since the 80s, but the NCAA failed.

I've hoped this can drag slowly through the courts but the NCAA seems desperate to off itself as fast as possible.

If this gets to Congress, I will never buy tickets to any college sporting event. Congress can not even get a spending bill passed or anything else that is important for we as citizens. Please don't get College Sports decisions made by the same bunch of morons.

 

[normbland]

I didn't know that. Pat Forde, Cory Bush, The University of Missouri, Chief fans that are only there because of that red lipped bimbo...

Damn I hate the state of Missouri.

Different conspiracy theory.

Or is it?

 

[turbovol]

The real question with NIL recruiting is why programs engage in it in the first place. It's stupid. The answer, of course, is because major programs and their fans ARE in fact crazy stupid about winning games, and so all the big programs worry that their rivals will get a leg up on them by landing better players. They're not obligated to offer NIL deals--and if they were smart, they'd all quietly stop doing so. But nobody wants to outmaneuvered and not competitive--and it is this completely irrational hyper-competitiveness in college football that has spiraled out of control and led to all this madness.

NIL recruiting is a massive complication. You've got to dun booster/contributors for more money, make decisions about how much money to offer specific players. (Isn't there a rule that the programs cannot be involved in the deals? If so, how is it decided how much to offer--and to whom? Is Sprye doing this on its own, with no input for our coaches? That wouldn't even make sense.)

What's more, the process turns prospects into money-grubbing mercenaries who have NO loyalty to the school that spent heavily (stupidly) to sign them in the first place. These dudes wake up unhappy after a year and decide to transfer---look at all the top QB prospect of the last 3/4 years who have transferred two and three times already. Waste of time, money, integrity. Plus: While Nico Suavé is getting millions, we've probably got starting guards or defensive linemen making NIL peanuts--if they are getting NIL at all. And so why wouldn't they decide to sue the school and NCAA on the premise that they should get equal treatment/pay? Talk about Pandora's Box. Oh, my.

Pro sports doesn't even engage in such craziness. They have an orderly draft, and clubs pay their draft picks based on the ranking of the pick. There are no bidding wars for players.

 

[turbovol]

If this gets to Congress, I will never buy tickets to any college sporting event. Congress can not even get a spending bill passed or anything else that is important for we as citizens. Please don't get College Sports decisions made by the same bunch of morons.

Have you got some Wise Men in mind that should make decisions for college sports?

 

[utvolpj]

Pro sports doesn't even engage in such craziness. They have an orderly draft, and clubs pay their draft picks based on the ranking of the pick. There are no bidding wars for players.

So what you're saying is there's no free agency in the NFL?

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Have you got some Wise Men in mind that should make decisions for college sports?

The NCAa is a product of all the Colleges And was created by the Schools at all levels of colleges who had/have sports programs. It covers way too many levels and should be broken down at at least 3-4 different organizations. I would like to see 4 or 5 separate organizations which would include the Power 5 schools. That would take care of the top 60-80 schools. Representatives from those schools would set the rules for those schools. Do the same for each level of collegia sports programs. Many of the past NCAA mistakes in the past were made to compensate for the difference in revenues of the “smaller” colleges. I do not want any Federal, State, or Local politicians involved in the decision making processs at ant level. I am sur a lot of discussions will be held before any new process will be made at any level.

It is going to be a long and messy trip before it is over.

 

[Volfan39]

The real question with NIL recruiting is why programs engage in it in the first place. It's stupid. The answer, of course, is because major programs and their fans ARE in fact crazy stupid about winning games, and so all the big programs worry that their rivals will get a leg up on them by landing better players. They're not obligated to offer NIL deals--and if they were smart, they'd all quietly stop doing so. But nobody wants to outmaneuvered and not competitive--and it is this completely irrational hyper-competitiveness in college football that has spiraled out of control and led to all this madness.

NIL recruiting is a massive complication. You've got to dun booster/contributors for more money, make decisions about how much money to offer specific players. (Isn't there a rule that the programs cannot be involved in the deals? If so, how is it decided how much to offer--and to whom? Is Sprye doing this on its own, with no input for our coaches? That wouldn't even make sense.)

What's more, the process turns prospects into money-grubbing mercenaries who have NO loyalty to the school that spent heavily (stupidly) to sign them in the first place. These dudes wake up unhappy after a year and decide to transfer---look at all the top QB prospect of the last 3/4 years who have transferred two and three times already. Waste of time, money, integrity. Plus: While Nico Suavé is getting millions, we've probably got starting guards or defensive linemen making NIL peanuts--if they are getting NIL at all. And so why wouldn't they decide to sue the school and NCAA on the premise that they should get equal treatment/pay? Talk about Pandora's Box. Oh, my.

Pro sports doesn't even engage in such craziness. They have an orderly draft, and clubs pay their draft picks based on the ranking of the pick. There are no bidding wars for players.

Schools participate in nil recruiting because they would get no good freaking players if they didn’t. Not that hard of a concept to understand. Good players want to be payed. Want to compete you do what you have to do

 

[chatt.vol]

"funds the majority of the guys and provides a nicer little chunk of change than the average 18 to 22 yr old earn and has some performance based incentives"

I hope that last part isn't true and you're just speculating.

The college governing body’s guidance, however, forbids on-field performance from altering the value of endorsement deals.

 

[DaddyChad]

I hope that last part isn't true and you're just speculating.

The college governing body’s guidance, however, forbids on-field performance from altering the value of endorsement deals.

Pretty much. Performance based might be appearances etc. None of these collectives are stupid, they’re not going to make it easy to screw them.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

If this gets to Congress, I will never buy tickets to any college sporting event. Congress can not even get a spending bill passed or anything else that is important for we as citizens. Please don't get College Sports decisions made by the same bunch of morons.

NIL laws are largely made in Nashville for TN. Luckily, Spyre is said to have good contacts in Nashville and worked with lawmakers. I'm not in that circle but I was told the state legislature was reasonably helpful in getting things passed quickly for UT to get started with NIL.

As far DC goes, they mostly pass gas rather than any meaningful legislation. Tuberville was "leading the fight" for college sports legislation and he's not the brightest bulb in the room. I don't anticipate Congress being helpful.

I believe the line is: Congress is like a diaper. It should be changed and thrown out regularly and usually for the same reason.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

If Congress gets involved, it will never be workable.

 

[BP4Prez]

 

[volstudent26]

Okay so I have got some clarifications for anyone interested. I spoke to a few NIL lawyers online today and I got some of their insight.

Basically in Alston V NCAA the case that made NIL legal the supreme court found the NCAA in violation of the Sherman anti trust act.

Our legal cases are built off of that same foundation but we are going a step further in saying simply interfering with NIL is enough to violate the Sherman anti trust act.

to that effect Tennessee has given the federal court responsible for the eastern district of Tennessee until January 6th to issue a TRO. (temporary restraining order) if the eastern district court grants that the NCAA loses its power to touch us or any nil enforcement for 10 days and during that time we will seek an injunction which would make that time period much longer.

In terms of the outcome if we are granted the TRO that means we are very likely to win the injunction and the whole case against the NCAA.

if we are not granted the TRO it isn't over but it means out odds are not very good on this particular case.

A few NIL lawyers I have spoken to think we will likely win the case and a few more have said we stand on shaky untested ground. and even though the NCAA has had some high profile legal losses recently they where able to win a case about amateurism against a few football players that played in a small paid league but then tried to enter NCAA as student athletes. So this could shape out either way. in the supreme court Kavanaugh went a step further against the NCAA in his concurring opinion which will help us but that was only 1 of the justices not all 9 felt that way. so just be aware its far from over or a slam dunk

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

I disagree with your reasoning. I think Scotus would see that as restricting earnings potential unless the students/employees agree to it via some kind of collective bargaining.

SCOTUS made clear you cannot put any restrictions on student athletes when it comes to NIL that you do not put on the other students.

Agree any sanctioned entity can pay any athlete any amount of money but they are not guaranteed to be able to play at their school of choice if that school does not have room under schollie cap or my proposed NIL cap. They are free to take their deal to a school with room. A player has THEIR NIL value protected, but NOT a player/school combo value protected. Players also now have unlimited official visits THEY can take, but each school has a limit on how many they can host. Same deal.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Agree any sanctioned entity can pay any athlete any amount of money but they are not guaranteed to be able to play at their school of choice if that school does not have room under schollie cap or my proposed NIL cap. They are free to take their deal to a school with room. A player has THEIR NIL value protected, but NOT a player/school combo value protected. Players also now have unlimited official visits THEY can take, but each school has a limit on how many they can host. Same deal.

The lawsuit comes because you're treating players with NIL differently than regular students with NIL.

That was the basis of Alston when the NCAA tried to cap what players could receive via educational benefits from a scholarship vs what a regular student could receive.

If you can't reasonably cap NIL for ALL students, you can't cap it for athletes.

 

[chatt.vol]

Okay so I have got some clarifications for anyone interested. I spoke to a few NIL lawyers online today and I got some of their insight.

Basically in Alston V NCAA the case that made NIL legal the supreme court found the NCAA in violation of the Sherman anti trust act.

Our legal cases are built off of that same foundation but we are going a step further in saying simply interfering with NIL is enough to violate the Sherman anti trust act.

to that effect Tennessee has given the federal court responsible for the eastern district of Tennessee until January 6th to issue a TRO. (temporary restraining order) if the eastern district court grants that the NCAA loses its power to touch us or any nil enforcement for 10 days and during that time we will seek an injunction which would make that time period much longer.

In terms of the outcome if we are granted the TRO that means we are very likely to win the injunction and the whole case against the NCAA.

if we are not granted the TRO it isn't over but it means out odds are not very good on this particular case.

A few NIL lawyers I have spoken to think we will likely win the case and a few more have said we stand on shaky untested ground. and even though the NCAA has had some high profile legal losses recently they where able to win a case about amateurism against a few football players that played in a small paid league but then tried to enter NCAA as student athletes. So this could shape out either way. in the supreme court Kavanaugh went a step further against the NCAA in his concurring opinion which will help us but that was only 1 of the justices not all 9 felt that way. so just be aware its far from over or a slam dunk

So we're screwed? January 6th has passed.

How do you know the other Justices don't agree. Did they write a rebuttal opinion to Kavanaughs? I can't find that anywhere.

 

[volfanhill]

The real question with NIL recruiting is why programs engage in it in the first place. It's stupid. The answer, of course, is because major programs and their fans ARE in fact crazy stupid about winning games, and so all the big programs worry that their rivals will get a leg up on them by landing better players. They're not obligated to offer NIL deals--and if they were smart, they'd all quietly stop doing so. But nobody wants to outmaneuvered and not competitive--and it is this completely irrational hyper-competitiveness in college football that has spiraled out of control and led to all this madness.

NIL recruiting is a massive complication. You've got to dun booster/contributors for more money, make decisions about how much money to offer specific players. (Isn't there a rule that the programs cannot be involved in the deals? If so, how is it decided how much to offer--and to whom? Is Sprye doing this on its own, with no input for our coaches? That wouldn't even make sense.)

What's more, the process turns prospects into money-grubbing mercenaries who have NO loyalty to the school that spent heavily (stupidly) to sign them in the first place. These dudes wake up unhappy after a year and decide to transfer---look at all the top QB prospect of the last 3/4 years who have transferred two and three times already. Waste of time, money, integrity. Plus: While Nico Suavé is getting millions, we've probably got starting guards or defensive linemen making NIL peanuts--if they are getting NIL at all. And so why wouldn't they decide to sue the school and NCAA on the premise that they should get equal treatment/pay? Talk about Pandora's Box. Oh, my.

Pro sports doesn't even engage in such craziness. They have an orderly draft, and clubs pay their draft picks based on the ranking of the pick. There are no bidding wars for players.

There is no appropriate response to this nonsense

 

[volstudent26]

So we're screwed? January 6th has passed.

How do you know the other Justices don't agree. Did they write a rebuttal opinion to Kavanaughs? I can't find that anywhere.

I meant February 6th my bad lol. am i able to edit that? I am embarrassed now

Also we do not know what the other justices think we just know Kavanaugh wrote his own conclusion separate of the joint conclusion of the other 8 justices and I have no doubt he would agree with Tennessee on this case but I do not know where the other 8 would stand because they did not go as far as him in terms of slamming the NCAA as hard.

 

[volstudent26]

Okay so I have got some clarifications for anyone interested. I spoke to a few NIL lawyers online today and I got some of their insight.

Basically in Alston V NCAA the case that made NIL legal the supreme court found the NCAA in violation of the Sherman anti trust act.

Our legal cases are built off of that same foundation but we are going a step further in saying simply interfering with NIL is enough to violate the Sherman anti trust act.

to that effect Tennessee has given the federal court responsible for the eastern district of Tennessee until January 6th to issue a TRO. (temporary restraining order) if the eastern district court grants that the NCAA loses its power to touch us or any nil enforcement for 10 days and during that time we will seek an injunction which would make that time period much longer.

In terms of the outcome if we are granted the TRO that means we are very likely to win the injunction and the whole case against the NCAA.

if we are not granted the TRO it isn't over but it means out odds are not very good on this particular case.

A few NIL lawyers I have spoken to think we will likely win the case and a few more have said we stand on shaky untested ground. and even though the NCAA has had some high profile legal losses recently they where able to win a case about amateurism against a few football players that played in a small paid league but then tried to enter NCAA as student athletes. So this could shape out either way. in the supreme court Kavanaugh went a step further against the NCAA in his concurring opinion which will help us but that was only 1 of the justices not all 9 felt that way. so just be aware its far from over or a slam dunk

I meant to say February 6th my bad guys.

my main point to make here is that we can likely get a better feel for how this case plays out based on how our TRO goes.

there are a few other things that have been discussed that I would be happy to talk about I not a lawyer but I spoke with a few on twitter today 2 in detail the others just gave me their opinion.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

C'mon. An organization like baseball gets away with salary caps because they're dealing with employees AND it's negotiated with the players union.

If players are employees or treated like employees and have their earnings OUTSIDE OF SPORTS capped, be prepared to get sued.

Even pro sports don't restrict NIL earnings. They restrict what products can be endorsed but not the amount a player or team can earn.

Read my lips, neither the collective nor the player are restricted in the deal they cut, EACH SCHOOL COULD have their NIL dollars on THEIR team capped just like they have their number of schollies capped. Kid will be free to earn all that money at any school with room under their cap, just like they do when schools run out of schollies. That does not impact HIS name, HIS image or HIS likeness in any way. SCOTUS did not guarantee him the right to leverage the value of individual schools of choice to his benefit. The NCAA just has to show they are NOW welcoming him to earn his money within their organization as long as the player and the school are within the established rules.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Read my lips, neither the collective nor the player are restricted in the deal they cut, EACH SCHOOL COULD have their NIL dollars on THEIR team capped just like they have their number of schollies capped. Kid will be free to earn all that money at any school with room under their cap, just like they do when schools run out of schollies. That does not impact HIS name, HIS image or HIS likeness in any way. SCOTUS did not guarantee him the right to leverage the value of individual schools of choice to his benefit. The NCAA just has to show they are NOW welcoming him to earn his money within their organization as long as the player and the school are within the established rules.

The crux of Alston was similar. Athletes weren't allowed to obtain computers, educational trips and such that other students with the same scholarship could.

The court determined the NCAA couldn't restrict scholarship benefits to athletes which any other student could receive.

Unless the school is "capping" NIL for non-athletes, they can't "cap" NIL for athletes.

You can't "single out" athletes at the school and restrict them more than normal students.

If you're saying that's NOT restricting the athlete's, are you going to cap what other students can earn in total at the school also?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Read my lips, neither the collective nor the player are restricted in the deal they cut, EACH SCHOOL COULD have their NIL dollars on THEIR team capped just like they have their number of schollies capped. Kid will be free to earn all that money at any school with room under their cap, just like they do when schools run out of schollies. That does not impact HIS name, HIS image or HIS likeness in any way. SCOTUS did not guarantee him the right to leverage the value of individual schools of choice to his benefit. The NCAA just has to show they are NOW welcoming him to earn his money within their organization as long as the player and the school are within the established rules.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of NIL. NIL is a personal contract a player signs.

The NCAA has ZERO right to interfere with a player's personal contract. They can't make the student leave the program if they sign a personal NIL AFTER THEY ENROLL. That's not their business nor the school's business.

What would you do? Dismiss a player because they put the school over the cap? You'll find lawsuits everywhere.

 

[Unimane]

The real question with NIL recruiting is why programs engage in it in the first place. It's stupid. The answer, of course, is because major programs and their fans ARE in fact crazy stupid about winning games, and so all the big programs worry that their rivals will get a leg up on them by landing better players. They're not obligated to offer NIL deals--and if they were smart, they'd all quietly stop doing so. But nobody wants to outmaneuvered and not competitive--and it is this completely irrational hyper-competitiveness in college football that has spiraled out of control and led to all this madness.

NIL recruiting is a massive complication. You've got to dun booster/contributors for more money, make decisions about how much money to offer specific players. (Isn't there a rule that the programs cannot be involved in the deals? If so, how is it decided how much to offer--and to whom? Is Sprye doing this on its own, with no input for our coaches? That wouldn't even make sense.)

What's more, the process turns prospects into money-grubbing mercenaries who have NO loyalty to the school that spent heavily (stupidly) to sign them in the first place. These dudes wake up unhappy after a year and decide to transfer---look at all the top QB prospect of the last 3/4 years who have transferred two and three times already. Waste of time, money, integrity. Plus: While Nico Suavé is getting millions, we've probably got starting guards or defensive linemen making NIL peanuts--if they are getting NIL at all. And so why wouldn't they decide to sue the school and NCAA on the premise that they should get equal treatment/pay? Talk about Pandora's Box. Oh, my.

Pro sports doesn't even engage in such craziness. They have an orderly draft, and clubs pay their draft picks based on the ranking of the pick. There are no bidding wars for players.

So, the solution is for the schools to collude against the athletes while universities make money hand over fist from the efforts of said players? This whole passage reads like a fan rather than a rational reflection which considers people are allowed to operate in their own interests in the free market to an extent. You are arguing for some facade that never really existed, but you resent the current landscape of moneyed young adults because it's happening in public rather than in the shadows, like it was in the past. In the end, players will come and go, as always, but I'll root for the T on the side of the helmet.

Still, the idea it's the players who are the "money grubbers" in this scenario simply defies logic. Their coach is still making upwards of $10 million and the tv payouts to schools are in the tens of millions. I don't know why people keep wanting the players, the reason people watching, continually screwed.

 

[joevol33]

This is getting as much traction as the gruden thread, almost

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Read my lips, neither the collective nor the player are restricted in the deal they cut, EACH SCHOOL COULD have their NIL dollars on THEIR team capped just like they have their number of schollies capped. Kid will be free to earn all that money at any school with room under their cap, just like they do when schools run out of schollies. That does not impact HIS name, HIS image or HIS likeness in any way. SCOTUS did not guarantee him the right to leverage the value of individual schools of choice to his benefit. The NCAA just has to show they are NOW welcoming him to earn his money within their organization as long as the player and the school are within the established rules.

Thinking about your idea, you've singlehandedly destroyed NIL.

If the NCAA has the right to cap NIL for a team, cap it at $1. Almost every player gets a penny and that's it.

Poof. No NIL anymore. Ridiculous, you say? Yes, yes it is, but if the NCAA has the right, they have have the right to set it wherever they want.

Great job!