UT will not get better

[ukvols]

Bobby Petrino and Mark Richt would also like to discuss this prerequisite of needing SEC experience before you are allowed to win in the SEC.

Richt is the first name to be dropped in this thread whose pre-SEC head coaching experience wasn't undeniably superior to that of Butch Jones. Richt was instead a coordinator for one of the nation's most elite teams in the 90s.

Petrino had no SEC head coaching experience, but he won a tougher Big East and was highly ranked on a regular basis. And, he coached in the NFL (for a few games at least).

The argument has been over pre-SEC experience. It's a flawed argument, as numerous examples have been cited. But, most of those examples still have better resumes.

 

[Mr. Lofton]

We picked up playmakers on offense and hopefully a couple on defense. There's not that much difference between 3 and 4 star players. A good coach, and some positive momentum, can help build this team. Don't count CBJ out before he even takes the practice field. If we sign 30 players and are in the top 3 next year on signing day will you have the same take?

 

[VolFan4Life87]

I'm telling you what the problem is

Not giving up

If this staff starts winning ball games, there isn't a problem. This staff hasn't had a chance to win ball games yet.

 

[Catbone]

If CBJ can't get the job done within the next two years I predict the guys up top will have to go.

 

[Sheath Huler]

Academics and athletics are always mutually exclusive.

Right.

Enough with the BS excuses. Just win some games and the ranking will go up. Having a semi-competent coaching staff for the first time in three years should help.

 

[atlantavol62]

I see no reason why someone should be criticized for being concerned about the now multi-year trend downward in UT football. It doesn't mean anyone is giving up on our Vols but we have very little positive news in recent years. Jones may be a good coach for us - he may not. None of us know. He may be a good recruiter but we still don't know.

It sucks to again be in this position with a coach. We all hope for the best and frankly, Jones has a better track record than Dooley had. But unfortunately, we can all hope but the current status is still "we'll see." Can you say that about any coach? Of course, but we've been in the same position for 4-5 years now. I'm optimistic about Jones, but that's all anyone can say.

 

[EZE]

Les Miles...No SEC experience until head coach at LSU
Urban Meyer...No SEC experience until head coach at Florida
Nick Saban...No SEC experience until head coach at LSU

Oops, and now it is confirmed that vampires really are in the dark. We have some of the most delusional, worst fans in the world as shown by many of the new threads started today. "The sky is always falling...."

 

[frank grimes]

IMO we should snatch up Obama as soon as he is out of office.

You guys worried about not paying for a top coach? Obama has no problem dropping as much cash as it takes and in this business cash is king unlike it is in government.

Good idea. And Obama is used to ordering drone strikes on children, so there is no question whether or not he can be strict with these kids. He'd earn respect by his Nobel peace prize body count.

 

[volspeach]

I vow to never, ever say Tennessee won't get any better!!! Today was a huge first step!!!!!!! I swear, I don't know why the negativity has to continue since DD was let go... it's time to move forward!!!!!! Coach Jones and staff are, why can't more fans be behind our program? Hallelujah!!! :rock: I've said all along more negative people should apply for coaching or AD jobs at UT if you can do any better than professionals..

GO VOLS..
GO BIG ORANGE.. :salute:

 

[TOP]

Look at the programs those three coaches came from and the success they had there.

I'm not saying Butch Jones will fail or be great.

You guys are digging a hole...

Les Miles @ Oklahoma State
4-7
8-5
10-3
7-5

Nick Saban @ Michigan State
6-5-1
6-6
7-5
6-6
9-2

Kevin Sumlin and Urban Meyer were previously head coaches in CUSA, MWC and MAC

I'm looking at the programs Miles and Saban came from, what is this success you speak of? Miles had 5+ losses in three out of four seasons and Saban had 5+ losses in four out of five seasons. I guess if that qualifies as success then yeah, they were successful.

No one believes we're in LSU's league these day and I guarantee nobody here would have been happy if we had hired a coach from Oklahoma State or Michigan State that had the "success" Miles and Saban had. Florida has a couple of recent championships and they resorted to hiring a defensive coordinator. Some people need to take a step back and realize we're not in position to go out and hire a big time coach, most teams aren't. Not like Auburn has been any better off in their searches and they have as good of facilities and resources as we do. They ended up with a coach that was 2-9 and 3-10 at Iowa State. Even after he gave them a crystal ball, the best Auburn could lure was a coach with one year of head coaching experience in the Sun Belt. Other schools in the SEC have been in better position to hire a top coach and they weren't able to secure one.

People need to give it time and quit acting like we need a superior proven head coach to win. If LSU, Auburn and Florida can't lure one, you're crazy to think it's a given that Tennessee should be able to. When guys like Chris Petersen and Gary Patterson won't leave for much better jobs, that should tell you how hard it is to lure a proven coach. They're staying at small time programs, so of course it's going to be virtually impossible to lure a coach away from a big time program. Give Butch time before you write him off because I'm definitely not seeing this superior success Saban and Miles had before they arrived to LSU.

 

[TOP]

I hope Jones enjoys that same level of success here.
I'm just not setting my expectations too high this time until I see results - a win over SCar or UGA or Fla, or a 5-star signing, whatever - anything to convince me we're trending upward again.

But, Jones' pre-UT resume is not at the level of the guys you named.
It's much better than the pre-UT resume of the coach he is replacing here. No question about that. Jones has at least won a fair amount of games at a couple of stops.

You keep saying this but yes, it is on the level of Saban's and Miles' resume. I'll say it again, 5+ losses in three out of four seasons and 5+ losses in four out five seasons.

I guarantee you wouldn't have been satisfied had we hired a coach from those programs with that resume.

 

[PACKERVOL]

until a change is made at the very top. The UT admin above Hart IS NOT committed to winning.

We have to hope that we can succeed with what we have. If not, another coaching change in 3 years and another coaching search that ends up being sub-par

Butch Jones may turn out to be great, but who knows. This league is not friendly to coaches without SEC experience.

If UT is going to return to prominence, we have to have the winning attitude start at the top. Its not there with Cheek

Fire Cheek and get someone in that thinks more of the UT AD than an ATM

Let's see. How about Saban, Miles, Sumlin, Myer, etc. Had no SEC experience.

 

[92volalum]

Count im in u get what u pay for n hart n cheek dont know much about making money.

They both should be fired n say we speed it up by not supporting them financially..

 

[atlantavol62]

I understand the "Jones's resume is on par with Saban, Miles, etc." But why is this presented as an argument that we have a good coach in Jones? I read the original post as frustration with our current state and dissatisfaction with the administration's position vis a vis the football program. Relativist measures of football coaches doesn't address that perception. I get that the "without SEC experience" in the post is debatable, but one of the main messages in the thread is not. We continue to face an uncertain future. I personally can't speak to the commitment of the administration.

 

[UGADawg4Life]

Les Miles...No SEC experience until head coach at LSU
Urban Meyer...No SEC experience until head coach at Florida
Nick Saban...No SEC experience until head coach at LSU

Mark Richt, James Franklin.......

 

[Bluetic]

Let's see. How about Saban, Miles, Sumlin, Myer, etc. Had no SEC experience.

Actually, CBJ has a better winning percentage than Saban or Miles or Rickt had when they came in to the league. Look, this guy can coach and he's not another Dooley, lets not let a lowley top 25 recruiting class rain on our parade.:rock:

 

[ukvols]

You guys are digging a hole...

Les Miles @ Oklahoma State
4-7
8-5
10-3
7-5

Nick Saban @ Michigan State
6-5-1
6-6
7-5
6-6
9-2

Kevin Sumlin and Urban Meyer were previously head coaches in CUSA, MWC and MAC

I'm looking at the programs Miles and Saban came from, what is this success you speak of? Miles had 5+ losses in three out of four seasons and Saban had 5+ losses in four out of five seasons. I guess if that qualifies as success then yeah, they were successful.

No one believes we're in LSU's league these day and I guarantee nobody here would have been happy if we had hired a coach from Oklahoma State or Michigan State that had the "success" Miles and Saban had. Florida has a couple of recent championships and they resorted to hiring a defensive coordinator. Some people need to take a step back and realize we're not in position to go out and hire a big time coach, most teams aren't. Not like Auburn has been any better off in their searches and they have as good of facilities and resources as we do. They ended up with a coach that was 2-9 and 3-10 at Iowa State. Even after he gave them a crystal ball, the best Auburn could lure was a coach with one year of head coaching experience in the Sun Belt. Other schools in the SEC have been in better position to hire a top coach and they weren't able to secure one.

People need to give it time and quit acting like we need a superior proven head coach to win. If LSU, Auburn and Florida can't lure one, you're crazy to think it's a given that Tennessee should be able to. When guys like Chris Petersen and Gary Patterson won't leave for much better jobs, that should tell you how hard it is to lure a proven coach. They're staying at small time programs, so of course it's going to be virtually impossible to lure a coach away from a big time program. Give Butch time before you write him off because I'm definitely not seeing this superior success Saban and Miles had before they arrived to LSU.

If people wouldn't have been happy with the bolded, then I suppose it will always be Gruden or bust around here.

 

[rockytop114]

until a change is made at the very top. The UT admin above Hart IS NOT committed to winning.

We have to hope that we can succeed with what we have. If not, another coaching change in 3 years and another coaching search that ends up being sub-par

Butch Jones may turn out to be great, but who knows. This league is not friendly to coaches without SEC experience.

If UT is going to return to prominence, we have to have the winning attitude start at the top. Its not there with Cheek

Fire Cheek and get someone in that thinks more of the UT AD than an ATM

Butch Please!

 

[VOLinthaNATI]

I know he didn't kill it like Meyer at his previous stop, but hiring the Michigan State coach is still generally going to be a whole tier better than hiring the Cincinnati coach, with exceptions like Brian Kelly, who we should have hired when we hired Kifin.

LOL. Would you have been okay with Mark Dantonio? Where was he before Michigan State?

 

[salutethehill]

Actually, CBJ has a better winning percentage than Saban or Miles or Rickt had when they came in to the league. Look, this guy can coach and he's not another Dooley, lets not let a lowley top 25 recruiting class rain on our parade.:rock:

*Ricked

 

[salutethehill]

Mark Richt, James Franklin.......

Pete Carroll, Bob Stoops, Derek Dooley

 

[ukvols]

LOL. Would you have been okay with Mark Dantonio? Where was he before Michigan State?

He's the one who won at Cincy before Kelly and Jones went to Cincy.
Time well tell whether we hired another Dantonio/Kelly or someone who merely followed them.
I'm hoping for the former.
My concern is that both of Jones' prior head coaching positions, at CMU and Cincy, were after Kelly. Now, he's following Dooley, not Kelly.

 

[Bluetic]

*Ricked

Eggsactly!

 

[ukvols]

You keep saying this but yes, it is on the level of Saban's and Miles' resume. I'll say it again, 5+ losses in three out of four seasons and 5+ losses in four out five seasons.

I guarantee you wouldn't have been satisfied had we hired a coach from those programs with that resume.

I am not debating how instantly satisfied I would have been with those hires.
I am only saying that their success isn't enough for me to be highly optimistic right now, because they came in with better resumes.

If the resumes and successes of other coaches who didn't have SEC experience makes people optimistic about UT football, then great.
And, I mean that.
I'm not going to try to strip people of their optimism. We all want the same thing in the end.

 

[onevolfan]

until a change is made at the very top. The UT admin above Hart IS NOT committed to winning.

We have to hope that we can succeed with what we have. If not, another coaching change in 3 years and another coaching search that ends up being sub-par

Butch Jones may turn out to be great, but who knows. This league is not friendly to coaches without SEC experience.

If UT is going to return to prominence, we have to have the winning attitude start at the top. Its not there with Cheek

Fire Cheek and get someone in that thinks more of the UT AD than an ATM

omg..why are you saying this? Is it because our coach, who just so happens to have not coached a game for us yet, did not get all of the 4 and 5 star players that were out there? Not to mention that he is our 4th coach in like 6 years. I can't believe those 4 and 5 star players were not beating down the doors to come here. For gosh sakes...give the man time!