Vaccine or not?

#2,729
#2,729
VolinMichigan said:
Okay, if Congress could force all American-owned companies to cease any manufacturing done in China would you support that without crying about the free market and big gov overreach? American companies pay congress members well to ensure they can keep their operations in China. It goes beyond Democrats and Republicans.
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I see globalism as an exercise in stupidity rather than strictly a political issue. I always come back to that little safety briefing the give before a flight - put on your own mask before trying to help others - there's a reason for it. Nationalism isn't normally greed; it's survival. The problem is that greed and lack of critical thinking by government, corporations, and labor put us in a position where we are uncompetitive with the rest of the world - just plain old one-upmanship. We have a national character flaw - we don't actually see competition as a constructive process; we've mastered the art of destructive competition. We don't compete to build better products, we compete to destroy the competition - forcing dissolution, takeover/merger, but in the end ONE.
 
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#2,741
#2,741
VolStrom said:
I would expect that the areas that implement mask mandates should see a marked decline in numbers if we are following the science.
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Mask wear is so poorly implemented that it's like mandatory seatbelts in cars before cops enforced usage - and even before the little electric mouse strapped you in. Correlating mask use with cases is useless - and probably mask mandates are, too, for the same reason. Seems like half of mask wearers apparently believe nothing is inhaled or exhaled through the nose.
 
#2,744
#2,744
The Original Fade said:
Pfizer is reporting that after analyzing 44,000 cases of patients who had had both shots, that the efficacy is at 91%. Like I said in another post, I’ll take my chances with the vaccine
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Definitely a bigger sample size we see in most polls and "studies" on VN. Still it seems too small.
 
#2,745
#2,745
KB5252 said:
This isn't a classical vaccine. The science of prior vaccines does not apply here. Completely different in delivery in that it alters RNA and there is no long term data or science for a vaccine like that in aware of. We know next to nothing about the long term effects of either the virus or this vaccine.

If there is some science or data backing up your assertion that long term effects are known id be interested in reading through it.

If I came off condescending I apologize. I'm not even anti vax but misinformation coming from both sides of this argument muddy the waters and make decisions for people much harder IMO.
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The mRNA vaccines are different, you are right, but in a good way. They actually teach our immune systems to recognize the pathogen without ever injecting a virus fragment to trigger the immune response.

And you are wrong to say that RNA/DNA is altered by this vaccine since the vaccine does not enter the cell’s nucleus. You can’t affect the body‘s natural RNA/DNA without invading the cell nucleus
 
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#2,747
#2,747
The Original Fade said:
The mRNA vaccines are different, you are right, but in a good way. They actually teach our immune systems to recognize the pathogen without ever injecting a virus fragment to trigger the immune response.

And you are wrong to say that RNA/DNA is altered by this vaccine since the vaccine does not enter the cell’s nucleus. You can’t affect the body‘s natural RNA/DNA without invading the cell nucleus
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I believe you are correct with regards to the theory behind it. However, the concern now is that once a vaccinated person gets in contact with the COVID virus or one of its variants, that the body will end up overly aggressive in trying to fight it, which results in some of these problems that breakthrough patients are having.
 
#2,749
#2,749
Rasputin_Vol said:
I believe you are correct with regards to the theory behind it. However, the concern now is that once a vaccinated person gets in contact with the COVID virus or one of its variants, that the body will end up overly aggressive in trying to fight it, which results in some of these problems that breakthrough patients are having.
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That's called antibody-dependent enhancement, and although something we need to watch for, it doesn't seem to be happening.

The big concern now appears to be that the single-target method of mRNA vaccines might be rapidly escaped by a mutation in the protein. The evidence is certainly pouring in, at this point. I just hope that there remains benefit in reducing severe illness.
 
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#2,750
#2,750
kiddiedoc said:
That's called antibody-dependent enhancement, and although something we need to watch for, it doesn't seem to be happening.

The big concern now appears to be that the single-target method of mRNA vaccines might be rapidly escaped by a mutation in the protein. The evidence is certainly pouring in, at this point. I just hope that there remains benefit in reducing severe illness.
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Doc, I am of the opinion based on what I have researched that having COVID provides more protection than the vaccine does - I am still very pro-vax. There are fewer cases of re-infection than breakthrough infection form a vaxxed person who has never had COVID. I guess the million dollar question is how long natural immunity lasts. Do you share this opinion?
 
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