Vaccine or not?

[NurseGoodVol]

So why is there no flu vaccine mandate?

Hospital workers have a flu mandate with some exceptions. Get the shot or mask during flu season.

 

[0nelilreb]

Lol, you need the media to shape this for you? You're telling on yourself.

Not really , I’m just going by what everyone but you and one attorney is saying . I’m liking my odds here . Lol

 

[Septic]

We've had mandated choices regarding vaccinations for decades.....for the betterment of society.

I think my favorite irony is that the same people who are outraged over all of this and/ or are refusing to take it because of Fauci or whatever <insert excuse here> are the first to tell you that it was trump who "warpseeded" it to market. Delicious.

 

[0nelilreb]

I think my favorite irony is that the same people who are outraged over all of this and/ or are refusing to take it because of Fauci or whatever <insert excuse here> are the first to you that it was trump who "warpseeded" it to market. Delicious.

There are better reasons I guess like taking so we can go on vacation or fish .

 

[C1500]

Because it does not provide 100% protection.
What you're saying is that because someone wearing a seatbelt died in a car accidents, then seatbelts obviously offer no protection when in a car accident.

I will be straight up front before I go into my post. This is one of the few time I'm not just trying to poke a bear, so if I jump around and sound like a drunk while asking a few things forgive me. I wasn't a A+ student in English. I don't want the vaccine. This isn't a stance I take because I'm pro D or R. I haven't took a flu shoot since 99. An didn't plan to take this one if Trump was put back in. When I was a baby I had to have a bunch of needles every week for a long time. I don't remember that, but I got a huge fear of needles and avoid at all costs. So I can promise you my whole opinion is not just based on who is in office at its core. I have family that has took it and I don't think any less of them. My wife works at the big hospital in our area. She ask me how I felt about her taking or not taking the shot. I told her she may lose her job if she don't, but I have her back 100% in whatever she picks to do. If she picks to take it I am 100% cool with that.

With that being said I want to turn to the freedom vs health. I am for full freedom of choice here. If you want the shot I think you should have the full freedom to go and get it. I also feel if your are against it that the Gov shouldn't be able to force that one you. I am pro business choice. If any private owned business wants to require it to work there, that is their right as a business owner. I don't agree with a "mask ban". I know some schools have come out and they would like to require masks and some parents have kicked on that. I don't think a school should be able to force a mask, I think if your kid don't want one and the other kid does let them. I don't have a problem with them requesting, more the bully forcing that some people seem to want.

Where do you stand on the health vs freedom to choose? Where is a happy middle that the two sides could meet and feel mutually respected?

I wont fully disagree with the science behind the vaccine. I know in some cases it will help should you get it. If I can admit that, is it not ok to question the long term affects that we are not fully sure about just yet?
Where does my rights end to pick what goes into my body, and the federal governments start? Does the federal government have any right to make a person take it, and if they do where does the governments rights to force you to do something end? If the owner of the place I work don't want to force the shot, does the government have the right to force him to require it or they will shut him down? At what point do you feel the government has to much power?

The big reason I even ask you was because of the seatbelt comment. You may not take anything I ask serious and just laugh at me and call me a right wing Trump lover. Where I work in a collision center I work on tons of wrecks. Some we get where there was a loss of life. I have heard the seatbelt/airbag argument for years, from customers and co-workers. Some feel that it being a law to wear one cuts into the right to choose and that the state should not be able to force you to wear it. IMO the seatbelt saves more lives then it hurts people in a wreck, but there is those rare times it does more damage than good. Just because overall the seatbelt does more good then harm, does that give the state the right to tell you have to wear one? Even if its a dumb decision that may get you killed in a collision, should it be your dumb decision to make? That's why I asked you your out look on those topics. Maybe It was a overall dumb reason to ask, but I felt like asking you.

 

[luthervol]

So why is there no flu vaccine mandate?

Some employers mandate it.
But in general, it does not rise to the level that society deems necessary.

 

[C-south]

Hospital workers have a flu mandate with some exceptions. Get the shot or mask during flu season.

But if you were supposedly overwhelmed with just flu patients that supposedly were taking up every icu bed would it matter?

 

[C-south]

Some employers mandate it.
But in general, it does not rise to the level that society deems necessary.

My god. Go back to wherever it was you were hiding. Society isn’t “deeming” it necessary here. Just a demented old man that continually takes Ls.

 

[Septic]

Soooo I’m not getting that “it’s not being called a vaccine mandate “ link from you . am I ?

Who GAF what it's called by the media?

What does that have to do with anything? You're not redirecting the argument that easily.

Its not a vaccine "mandate" if getting the vaccine is optional.

Stop dying on this hill.

 

[C-south]

Who GAF what it's called by the media?

What does that have to do with anything? You're not redirecting the argument that easily.

Its not a vaccine "mandate" if getting the vaccine is optional.

Stop dying on this hill.

So it’s optional for companies with more than 100 people to do what they want??

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

The case fatality ratio for paralytic polio is generally 2% to 5% among children and up to 15% to 30% among adolescents and adults.

So good decision on forced vaccination?

Yes. And if COVID were anywhere near that rate, thenI would completely agree to mandate vaccinations. But less than 1% is no reason to mandate vaccines.

 

[Offset Eye]

Try what? You’re confused lol

You're confused. "LOL".

 

[0nelilreb]

Who GAF what it's called by the media?

What does that have to do with anything? You're not redirecting the argument that easily.

Its not a vaccine "mandate" if getting the vaccine is optional.

Stop dying on this hill.

Is the other option “ the multiple testing” a mandate ?

Edit : you can almost feel it coming , can’t you ?

 

[Septic]

Is the other option “ the multiple testing” a mandate ?

Yes but it's secondary to the entire point which is that you don't have to get the effing shot. Which objectively defeats any fear mongering labeled narrative that a vaccine is mandatory.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Some employers mandate it.
But in general, it does not rise to the level that society deems necessary.

Wonder why?

 

[RockyTop85]

So you only want the employed people mandated to be vaccinated? Didnt I ask this already ?

As much as I’m loving the Biden Derangement Syndrome freakouts, I don’t think this order is prudent or good governance. I explicitly agreed with Slice when he said so, earlier, and what I said tonight does not contradict that. I’m not sure there’s a better way to answer your questions.

What I said was that it’s an argument in favor. Unlike the lazy-eyed orc saying the vaccine does “Jack squat,” I can acknowledge that there are benefits to things that I ultimately decide are wrong or not for me.

Example: robbing a bank.
Pros: get lots of money.
Cons: dangerous, violates property rights of others, high risk of jail time, high level of difficulty.

See, I look at that and say the cons outweigh the pros, but that doesn’t mean that one can’t actually get money from robbing a bank or that I have to refuse to acknowledge that you can get lots of money in order to articulate my reasons for not robbing banks. The fact that some people ran the analysis by deciding that they wanted the money and ignored the cons is why we have to have laws to punish it.

Same thing with vaccination. If some people’s rationale for declining the vaccine is so irrational that they make a determination without considering the benefits, that’s an item on the pro-mandate side of the ledger. (And it gives condescending nut-pickers ammunition to marginalize the rest of you.)

 

[0nelilreb]

Yes but it's secondary to the entire point which is that you don't have to get the effing shot. Which objectively defeats any fear mongering labeled narrative that a vaccine is mandatory.

Wait .. so there was two choices given by the President today to employers, you think because you have a choice between the two , that getting the vaccine IS NOT a mandate , but choosing to be tested multiple times IS a mandate ? You accuse me of a lack of critical thinking after that ? BOTH ARE MANDATES

 

[C1500]

As much as I’m loving the Biden Derangement Syndrome freakouts, I don’t think this order is prudent or good governance. I explicitly agreed with Slice when he said so, earlier, and what I said tonight does not contradict that. I’m not sure there’s a better way to answer your questions.

What I said was that it’s an argument in favor. Unlike the lazy-eyed orc saying the vaccine does “Jack squat,” I can acknowledge that there are benefits to things that I ultimately decide are wrong or not for me.

Example: robbing a bank.
Pros: get lots of money.
Cons: dangerous, violates property rights of others, high risk of jail time, high level of difficulty.

See, I look at that and say the cons outweigh the pros, but that doesn’t mean that one can’t actually get money from robbing a bank or that I have to refuse to acknowledge that you can get lots of money in order to articulate my reasons for not robbing banks. The fact that some people ran the analysis by deciding that they wanted the money and ignored the cons is why we have to have laws to punish it.

Same thing with vaccination. If some people’s rationale for declining the vaccine is so irrational that they make a determination without considering the benefits, that’s an item on the pro-mandate side of the ledger. (And it gives condescending nut-pickers ammunition to marginalize the rest of you.)

Don't know why, but that made me laugh way harder then it should.

 

[luthervol]

I will be straight up front before I go into my post. This is one of the few time I'm not just trying to poke a bear, so if I jump around and sound like a drunk while asking a few things forgive me. I wasn't a A+ student in English. I don't want the vaccine. This isn't a stance I take because I'm pro D or R. I haven't took a flu shoot since 99. An didn't plan to take this one if Trump was put back in. When I was a baby I had to have a bunch of needles every week for a long time. I don't remember that, but I got a huge fear of needles and avoid at all costs. So I can promise you my whole opinion is not just based on who is in office at its core. I have family that has took it and I don't think any less of them. My wife works at the big hospital in our area. She ask me how I felt about her taking or not taking the shot. I told her she may lose her job if she don't, but I have her back 100% in whatever she picks to do. If she picks to take it I am 100% cool with that.

With that being said I want to turn to the freedom vs health. I am for full freedom of choice here. If you want the shot I think you should have the full freedom to go and get it. I also feel if your are against it that the Gov shouldn't be able to force that one you. I am pro business choice. If any private owned business wants to require it to work there, that is their right as a business owner. I don't agree with a "mask ban". I know some schools have come out and they would like to require masks and some parents have kicked on that. I don't think a school should be able to force a mask, I think if your kid don't want one and the other kid does let them. I don't have a problem with them requesting, more the bully forcing that some people seem to want.

Where do you stand on the health vs freedom to choose? Where is a happy middle that the two sides could meet and feel mutually respected?

I wont fully disagree with the science behind the vaccine. I know in some cases it will help should you get it. If I can admit that, is it not ok to question the long term affects that we are not fully sure about just yet?
Where does my rights end to pick what goes into my body, and the federal governments start? Does the federal government have any right to make a person take it, and if they do where does the governments rights to force you to do something end? If the owner of the place I work don't want to force the shot, does the government have the right to force him to require it or they will shut him down? At what point do you feel the government has to much power?

The big reason I even ask you was because of the seatbelt comment. You may not take anything I ask serious and just laugh at me and call me a right wing Trump lover. Where I work in a collision center I work on tons of wrecks. Some we get where there was a loss of life. I have heard the seatbelt/airbag argument for years, from customers and co-workers. Some feel that it being a law to wear one cuts into the right to choose and that the state should not be able to force you to wear it. IMO the seatbelt saves more lives then it hurts people in a wreck, but there is those rare times it does more damage than good. Just because overall the seatbelt does more good then harm, does that give the state the right to tell you have to wear one? Even if its a dumb decision that may get you killed in a collision, should it be your dumb decision to make? That's why I asked you your out look on those topics. Maybe It was a overall dumb reason to ask, but I felt like asking you.

Great questions with no easy answers.
When my children went to public schools, I was glad that there were vaccination requirements for all students.
When my son started college last month, I was glad that he had to provide his immunization history.
I think that living in a properly functioning society comes with a few requirements. Individual freedoms can often conflict with societal good. My stance has always been that society always ultimately makes the call. It can be no other way.
I, like you, have not had the flu shot in about 20 years; but if I worked for a company that required it, I would take it or quit.
I have no problem with seatbelt laws because the punishment fits the crime. (pretty much none)
If they enforced the seatbelt laws with a year of prison, I would be adamantly against it.

 

[0nelilreb]

As much as I’m loving the Biden Derangement Syndrome freakouts, I don’t think this order is prudent or good governance. I explicitly agreed with Slice when he said so, earlier, and what I said tonight does not contradict that. I’m not sure there’s a better way to answer your questions.

What I said was that it’s an argument in favor. Unlike the lazy-eyed orc saying the vaccine does “Jack squat,” I can acknowledge that there are benefits to things that I ultimately decide are wrong or not for me.

Example: robbing a bank.
Pros: get lots of money.
Cons: dangerous, violates property rights of others, high risk of jail time, high level of difficulty.

See, I look at that and say the cons outweigh the pros, but that doesn’t mean that one can’t actually get money from robbing a bank or that I have to refuse to acknowledge that you can get lots of money in order to articulate my reasons for not robbing banks. The fact that some people ran the analysis by deciding that they wanted the money and ignored the cons is why we have to have laws to punish it.

Same thing with vaccination. If some people’s rationale for declining the vaccine is so irrational that they make a determination without considering the benefits, that’s an item on the pro-mandate side of the ledger. (And it gives condescending nut-pickers ammunition to marginalize the rest of you.)

That’s a very well though out and appreciated rational post , thank you . I may let you be a trustee in my attorney internment camps .

 

[luthervol]

My god. Go back to wherever it was you were hiding. Society isn’t “deeming” it necessary here. Just a demented old man that continually takes Ls.

I think you may be misreading society.

 

[luthervol]

Yes. And if COVID were anywhere near that rate, thenI would completely agree to mandate vaccinations. But less than 1% is no reason to mandate vaccines.

So there is a number at which you would think a mandate was valid.
Basically you are just disagreeing with where some place that number.
Whose number is right? Yours or theirs?
Who decides?

 

[luthervol]

Wonder why?

The flu? Because we are accustomed to it and can deal with it while maintaining a sense of normalcy.

 

[hUTch2002]

Um yes. It GREATLY REDUCES your risk.

Tell that to the people that have still died or have been hospitalized with covid after being vaccinated.

 

[Offset Eye]

As much as I’m loving the Biden Derangement Syndrome freakouts, I don’t think this order is prudent or good governance. I explicitly agreed with Slice when he said so, earlier, and what I said tonight does not contradict that. I’m not sure there’s a better way to answer your questions.

What I said was that it’s an argument in favor. Unlike the lazy-eyed orc saying the vaccine does “Jack squat,” I can acknowledge that there are benefits to things that I ultimately decide are wrong or not for me.

Example: robbing a bank.
Pros: get lots of money.
Cons: dangerous, violates property rights of others, high risk of jail time, high level of difficulty.

See, I look at that and say the cons outweigh the pros, but that doesn’t mean that one can’t actually get money from robbing a bank or that I have to refuse to acknowledge that you can get lots of money in order to articulate my reasons for not robbing banks. The fact that some people ran the analysis by deciding that they wanted the money and ignored the cons is why we have to have laws to punish it.

Same thing with vaccination. If some people’s rationale for declining the vaccine is so irrational that they make a determination without considering the benefits, that’s an item on the pro-mandate side of the ledger. (And it gives condescending nut-pickers ammunition to marginalize the rest of you.)

What are the benefits?